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Re: Confusion about Scrum

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  • pauloldfield1
    (responding to Tobias) ... Good point. I usually use the phrase cannot have anything removed and still be called Scrum because one can still remove things
    Message 1 of 44 , Dec 31, 2009
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      (responding to Tobias)

      > If Scrum is as consistent in its requirements as is often
      > claimed (i.e. cannot have things added or removed)...

      Good point. I usually use the phrase "cannot have anything
      removed and still be called Scrum" because one can still remove
      things from Scrum and get something that works, and one always
      must add something to get something that works. However, the
      goal for most of us is to get something that works well, or
      to get something that works better.

      > ... but by my reckoning both go beyond the essential
      > framework of Scrum, and into the realm of implementation.

      As I said in my previous post, I haven't looked recently, but
      shall take your word for it.

      > ... I have been intrigued by what "pure Scrum" might be...
      > to discover what the "abstract Scrum class" might look like...
      > I attempt to remove all that isn't essential to a true Scrum
      > implementation, and find that what is left is in fact very minimal
      > indeed. And yet (I believe) it captures the true spirit of Scrum
      > without once telling people how to do anything.
      >
      > My article is a first draft at creating an abstract Scrum class. No
      > doubt it can be improved. The challenge is to improve it, not by
      > adding, but by removing :-)

      Hmm, potentially another contender for the title of "right" Scrum?
      I'm all in favour of improving by removing though.

      Paul Oldfield
      Capgemini
    • Rafael Sabbagh
      * We had a very long thread about this last December, I believe. * I unfortunately lost a lot of threads the last few months due to my Master s dissertation.
      Message 44 of 44 , Mar 29, 2010
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        > We had a very long thread about this last December, I believe.

        I unfortunately lost a lot of threads the last few months due to my Master's dissertation. I'm glad it's almost over! :)

        > One reason is that industry doesn't pay for the research, so it doesn't get done. There's a big gap between the universities and industry.

        True. We're trying to make this gap smaller here in Brazil (when it comes to Agile methodologies at least), but it's very, very hard.

        > Let's face it. Industry is cheap. They're always looking for the results of the research, but they don't want to pay for it. :-)

        Yep. But I don't think the industry is the only part interested on research results. We, as active people at the Scrum/Agile community, should be very interested on that.Well, I believe PMI puts some effort on research that justifies their beliefs, right? Maybe the ScrumAlliance and Scrum.org could do that too.



        Best,
           Rafael Sabbagh


        On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 17:59, woynam <woyna@...> wrote:
         


        We had a very long thread about this last December, I believe.

        One reason is that industry doesn't pay for the research, so it doesn't get done. There's a big gap between the universities and industry.

        Let's face it. Industry is cheap. They're always looking for the results of the research, but they don't want to pay for it. :-)

        Mark



        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Rafael Sabbagh <sabbagh@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes, I agree. The question is: why then isn't serious research on
        > Agile/Scrum use being performed?
        >
        > Academically speaking, if I want to even justify why I am writing about
        > Agile and Scrum in my Master's dissertation, I should use any "valid"
        > research. Instead, I have to use this kind of thing, 'cause that's what
        > exists, and that's why I still need it.
        >
        >
        > Best,
        > Rafael Sabbagh
        >
        >
        >
        > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:19, woynam <woyna@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Sigh. This kind of "research" drives me completely nuts. First, this does
        > > not appear to be a proper random poll. It's an online poll of "Agile"
        > > companies. It does not represent a true sample of all IT companies.
        > >
        > > What can we conclude from the numbers? Simply that 84% of companies that
        > > consider themselves agile that bothered to answer the survey have used
        > > Scrum.
        > >
        > > This is a *far* cry from concluding that 84% of all companies use Scrum.
        > >
        > > Mark
        > >
        > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com<scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>,

        > > Hariprakash Agrawal <haricha@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > link is:
        > > http://blogs.forrester.com/tom_grant/09-04-17-extended_family_agile
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > - Hari
        > > >
        > > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Rafael Sabbagh <sabbagh@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Getting back to that, did anybody have access to the actual Forrester
        > > > > Report about Agile and Scrum usage? It's now cited everywhere, but the
        > > > > actual data is nowhere on the web (not even at the Forrester website).
        > > Even
        > > > > if I'd want to buy it, I couldn't.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm finishing my Master's dissertation and it would be great to add
        > > that
        > > > > data (and be able to refer to the report/research).
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Best,
        > > > > Rafael Sabbagh
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 15:57, Bob Hartman <bob.hartman@>wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >> I don't want to fan the flames any more, but a quick Google search
        > > brought
        > > > >> up a Forrester blog entry with the information about Scrum usage which
        > > Ken
        > > > >> cited. I don't want to comment on it, but I thought if people were
        > > > >> interested they could see the data themselves at http://bit.ly/8ACF3g
        > > > >>
        > > > >> - Bob -
        > > > >>
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > > Regards,
        > > > Hariprakash Agrawal (Hari),
        > > > An Agile Coach (XP, Scrum), Certified Scrum Master, Trained Six Sigma
        > > Black
        > > > Belt, CMMi Consultant, ISO 9001:2000 Lead Auditor, MTech (Reliability &
        > > > Quality Engg) from IIT-KGP
        > > > http://opcord.com - OpCord provides trainings/consulting on many
        > > > frameworks/processes and testing services for organizations
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >


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