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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum v. PMBoK

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  • Cook Linda
    What would it take to arrange a few sessions with folks in a leadership role in PMI with a few folks from the agile & SCRUM camps? Perhaps a forum at one of
    Message 1 of 67 , Sep 2, 2004
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      What would it take to arrange a few sessions with folks in a leadership role
      in PMI with a few folks from the agile & SCRUM camps? Perhaps a forum at
      one of the conferences? If enough folks are interested, how could we get
      this started?

      Linda M. Cook, CSM
      Delivery Manager
      Arbitron Inc.



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Hubert Smits [mailto:hubert.smits@...]
      Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 5:09 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum v. PMBoK


      Hi Mike,

      > I'm part of another group that has been in discussions about writing a
      > whitepaper comparing agile management techniques to the PMBOK. But, if
      > I do that I can't link to the PMI on my site if I say any negative
      > comments about the PMBOK. From what I can tell of them, I don't know
      > what they'd consider a "negative or disparaging reference." It could
      > be as little as "And one place where Scrum offers a tiny, tiny
      > improvement over the PMBOK is..." Just say that and the PMI Police
      > could be at my door.

      If I understand you correctly then you take a 'them vs. us' approach. What I
      read in the original posting was more 'us added to them'. Ie. add the agile
      tools to the toolbox that's called PMBOK. Naive maybe.

      --Hubert



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    • Mike Dwyer
      All of us interested in a PMI interface might find this worth reading. http://www.vtt.fi/rte/ce/yhteystiedot/laurisdocuments/obsoletetheory.pdf It is a
      Message 67 of 67 , Sep 6, 2004
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        All of us interested in a PMI interface might find this worth reading.
        http://www.vtt.fi/rte/ce/yhteystiedot/laurisdocuments/obsoletetheory.pdf

        It is a presentation done by
        Koskela, Lauri & Howell, Greg at the
        Proceedings of PMI Research Conference 2002 Ed. by Dennis P. Slevin, David I
        Cleland, Jeffrey K. Pinto. Project Management Institute.

        BTW MikeV. Does this help with your research? Do you have any other
        articles from within the PMI archives that you could share on this topic?


        Michael F. Dwyer

        Mike.Dwyer1@...
        978 683 3439


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Victor Szalvay [mailto:victor@...]
        Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 4:16 PM
        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum v. PMBoK

        I'm not sure if this is still a relevant topic, but I read something
        today that made me think of this thread.

        If people are still pursuing the idea of creating a Scrum/Agile
        extension to the PMBoK, there appears to be precident in the PMBoK
        already for "adaptive" management methodologies: "Rolling Wave
        Planning". I saw this Craig Larman's book "Agile & Iterative
        Development: A Manager's Guide", pp. 253-258, where he references:
        Githens, G. 1998. "Rolling Wave Project Planning", Proceedings on the
        29th Annual Project Management Institute 1998 Seminars and Symposium.

        Craig notes that it is often recommended in RFPs, etc., but is widely
        misunderstood and disregarded in practice.

        Anyway, disregard if this is old news, but it was eye-opening to me.
        I didn't realize I was conforming and in-line with the PMBoK, some of
        my customers will be happy about that :) BTW, I highly recommend
        Craig's book, he takes a very "pragmatic" look at agile/iterative
        dev, and true to his well-researched form, delivers an amazingly well
        documented case for agile/iterative. Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/3hvtk

        -- Victor Szalvay
        http://www.danube.com/

        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "xenomino" <xenomino@y...>
        wrote:
        > In all of this discussion, I have yet to hear whether the Agile
        > Community feels that SCRUM is a Project Management methodology. If
        > the community does, there is a mechanism within PMI to create an
        > extension to the PMBOK for new industries or methodologies. I
        > wouldn't call it a SCRUM extension, as calling it an Agile
        extension
        > would allow the inclusion of more agile methodologies. If this is
        > something we agree to doing, I'd be interested in helping put
        > together.
        >
        > The benefits of this would be that the plan-driven pundits would be
        > somewhat silenced with the creation of the PMBOK specifically for
        > Agile projects. We (the agile camp) would be able to overcome the
        > lack of a cost-management and detailed procurement management
        > sections by simply including the PMBOK's by reference.
        >
        > Mike Van, PMP
        >
        > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Hubert Smits
        > <hubert.smits@g...> wrote:
        > > Hi Ken,
        > >
        > > I'm shading cells in the sprint backlog (for future tasks), looks
        > like
        > > a Gantt chart, similar results. Also provides some feedback on the
        > > planning process that a team went through once all the tasks have
        > > completed.
        > >
        > > --Hubert





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