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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: GAAP and Agile

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  • Roy Morien
    I think that s the main point of the discussion, as Gerge has clearly indicated. It is not the time and effort necessary to record hours that is the problem.
    Message 1 of 34 , Dec 2, 2009
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      I think that's the main point of the discussion, as Gerge has clearly indicated. It is not the time and effort necessary to record hours that is the problem. It is the ability to record times for the various components of Analysis, Design, Programming etc.
       
      Why would the IRS have a problem. If all of te estimates and 'guesstimates' that have been given, as suggested by myself anf others, add up to the actual hours expended on software development, then there should be no problem. Unless, of course, that domestic production deduction (which I actually know nothing about) excludes certain aspects, such as eg: testing time, or only includes eg: programming and not analysis.
       
      Regards,
      Roy Morien
       
      > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > From: lists@...
      > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:50:45 -0500
      > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: GAAP and Agile
      >
      > Tom Cabanski wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > I'd love to see what the IRS does with this if they ever audit on some
      > > tax issue like the domestic production deduction (only applicable to
      > > software product development). I'm not exactly sure how the 10 minutes
      > > or so a day it takes to track time to projects and activities (i.e.
      > > "coding" etc.) for billing/costing/tax purposes is non-agile provided it
      > > is not used to measure project progress.
      >
      > Tom, if you can estimate the time tracking overhead at 10 minutes a day,
      > then why can't you estimate the time spent coding/testing/designing
      > etc., instead?
      >
      > When I'm doing TDD, I don't know how to separate these things. Even if
      > I did, I would be switching so often that the overhead of keeping track
      > would be greater than 50% of the day.
      >
      > Personally, I would ask the Finance department what they expected the
      > numbers to be.
      >
      > - George
      >
      > --
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
      > Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
      > Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
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    • Roy Morien
      Good points, Mark. AsI said earlier, the accounting profession seems to be 20 years behind in its accounting practices and internal auditing practices for
      Message 34 of 34 , Dec 8, 2009
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        Good points, Mark. AsI said earlier, the accounting profession seems to be 20 years behind in its accounting practices and internal auditing practices for software development.
         
        Regards,
        Roy Morien
         

        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        From: woyna@...
        Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 22:46:31 +0000
        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: GAAP and Agile

         

        R&D can not be capitalized, but once a product is deemed feasible, all design, development, and testing can be capitalized.

        I have a stinking suspicion that your accountants have been led to believe that "analysis" is R&D, and not simply a high-level form of design.

        Have you ever read the accounting rules for software development? It's clear that it was written by a group that was convinced that the waterfall model was the only viable one.

        For example, software "maintenance" can not be capitalized, when in fact most "maintenance" is actually adding new features to software, which extends its useful life. Software does not break or wear out like a physical item. The same bits will continue to run indefinitely unless the environment changes. When it does change, modifying the software to run in the new environment *is* adding a new capability.

        Mark

        --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, "extremeprogrammer" <LanceWalton@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@ > wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello, extremeprogrammer. On Friday, December 4, 2009, at 2:24:49
        > > PM, you wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > > Criminy! But can you really capitalize 'analysis' differently from
        > > > 'design', for example?
        > >
        > > When did a government or regulator ever care about that?
        > >
        >
        > That's what I was getting at. If the government and regulators don't care, then why do the accountants or finance department? If they can't use the discrimination between 'analysis', 'design', etc. to gain some tax break or something, then what do they do with the information?
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Lance
        >




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