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RE: [!! SPAM] RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum Team and the Team

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  • Roy Morien
    If it is successful, then go for it! But don t think that it is a practice necessarilly applicable universally. In all things, there are horses for courses
    Message 1 of 27 , Dec 1, 2009
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      If it is successful, then go for it! But don't think that it is a practice necessarilly applicable universally.
       
      In all things, there are 'horses for courses' as the saying goes. 
       
      Again, Scrum is not a process strait-jacket that rigidly bounds our development behaviour.
       
      So, you're quite right ... is it Scrum? Doesn't look exactly like Scrum. Is it a bad (good) thing? Well, does it work for you? Does it matter if it is Scrum exactly or not? Nope!
       
      As always, the euphemistic 'you'. No specific 'you' is implied.
       
      Regards,
      Roy Morien
       
      > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > From: dan.rawsthorne@...
      > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 01:20:34 -0800
      > Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum Team and the Team
      >
      > "cross functional teams are the best and should be the way to go" It's
      > not that simple. Look at what Jeff Sutherland says about Patient Keeper.
      > As I understand it, his POs (doctors) deliver quite detailed
      > specifications to the developers. It looks to me like he has two teams
      > going on, a PO team developing mockups, prototypes, and specs, and a
      > development team turning them into code. Maybe we could consider each of
      > these teams cross-functional, I'm not sure. Maybe it's one big team with
      > two pieces. They certainly provide different kinds of artifacts in a
      > waterfall(ish) setup. Maybe this isn't scrum... maybe it is... does it
      > matter? Is this a bad thing? a good thing? or just a successful thing?
      >
      > Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, CST
      > Senior Coach, Danube Technologies
      > dan@..., 425-269-8628
      >
      >
      >
      > Roy Morien wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Fair enough :)
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > > From: kcsarath@...
      > > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 09:27:28 +0530
      > > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum Team and the Team
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi Roy,
      > > My statement was in the context of teams transitioning to agile
      > > where the org previously had UI design teams who used to hand out
      > > mockups to the teams. Now with agile, one of the big challenges that I
      > > found with teams is that the teams still expect the mockups and ui to
      > > be done by some one else. This is surely against the cross functional
      > > team goal.
      > >
      > > So my statement was that what were design teams who previously
      > > had the expertise of doing these mock ups and understand the org wide
      > > design standards should mentor the teams to understand these standards
      > > and enable the teams to take the ui design decisions by themselves
      > > without having to wait for UI mockups from some one else.
      > >
      > > Again sorry for the confusion of naming the teams because I was
      > > referring to teams in the typical waterfall env moving to agile. I do
      > > subscribe to the fact that cross functional teams are the best and
      > > should be the way to go.
      > >
      > >
      > > thanks,
      > > Sarath.
      > >
      > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Roy Morien <roymorien@...
      > > <mailto:roymorien@...>> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > " I have always said that the design teams should mentor the dev
      > > and test teams ".
      > >
      > > What "design teams"? What "dev teams"? WHat "test teams"? Whatever
      > > happened to "multi-skilled teams"?
      > >
      > > As far as I know, no agile method subscribes to the idea of having
      > > three separate teams for design, development and testing. Far from it!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > > Roy Morien
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > > <mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
      > > From: kcsarath@... <mailto:kcsarath@...>
      > > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:47:44 +0530
      > > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum Team and the Team
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi John,
      > > Please see my inputs inline.
      > >
      > >
      > > thanks.
      > > Sarath.
      > >
      > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, john.zayd <john.zayd@...
      > > <mailto:john.zayd@...>> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > *Team members are the engineers who are building the software,
      > > writing the code. What about QA?*
      > >
      > > >>>> When you mean QA what do you mean? It is the team's
      > > responsibility to assure to the PO that the product has quality
      > > and so i would see them as part of the team.
      > > While i do not think we should have a UAT, some of my
      > > customers who use the services of our agile team, do have some
      > > team members who help the PO from a UAT perspective. But mostly
      > > they also work closely with our team members in defining
      > > Acceptance criteria, participating in testing of the builds during
      > > and at the end of the sprint.
      > >
      > >
      > > *If the software is the team responsibility, then QA should be
      > > on the product owner side! *
      > >
      > > >>>> I some how seem to feel that you are referring to the UAT,
      > > but my answer is already above.
      > >
      > > *What if we are building an in-house product, that is the
      > > Product Owner have the responsibilities to provide GUI mockups, *
      > >
      > > >>>> This is a very common situation with many organizations that
      > > I coach. But in my opinion the PO is not responsible for the GUI
      > > mockups. The PO should be able to articulate the requirements and
      > > the vision of the product and leave it to the team to build the
      > > UI. Many cases that I have seen the teams moving into agile
      > > typically donot have these skills and normally wait for the design
      > > team to complete the mockups before the feature is started.
      > >
      > > This is not right and I have always said that the design teams
      > > should mentor the dev and test teams on the design patterns and
      > > standards used in the org and should hand hold them initially but
      > > enable the teams to do the mockups by themselves over a period of
      > > time without compromising design standards.
      > >
      > > *and also work on some features such as website, brochure etc:
      > > can these be an items in the backlog? If so, some of them, at
      > > least the GUI mockups will be mixed with other items/stories,
      > > in that case, well the product owner team share the team in
      > > estimating the backlog items (story points) for these items?*
      > >
      > > *>>*>> The PO will not have any owner ship on estimating the back
      > > log items.
      > >
      > > Since it's part of what DONE means for this specific tasks /
      > > item. Product owner are pigs also, and can speak in the
      > > standup meeting right? Will they report their work progress
      > > answering the three questions? Will they pay the $1 if they
      > > are late?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > Thanks,
      > > Sarath.
      > >
      > > Quad One Technologies | Mobile: +91 98490 05620 | Off: +91 40 2335
      > > 0221 | www.quadone.com <http://www.quadone.com/>
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > Thanks,
      > > Sarath.
      > >
      > > Quad One Technologies | Mobile: +91 98490 05620 | Off: +91 40 2335
      > > 0221 | www.quadone.com <http://www.quadone.com/>
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      >
      >
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