## RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Planning poker estimation

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• How can you know how long in hours a task will take if you have never done that before? Answer: You estimate, and then check it later and see how accurate you
Message 1 of 10 , Nov 26 6:01 AM
How can you know how long in hours a task will take if you have never done that before?

Answer: You estimate, and then check it later and see how accurate you were (mind you, in the case of hours that might still not be very useful).

In the case of stories, you start of with hopefully reasonably correct perceptions, and then learn from that. You build up a history of story estimating and you get better and better at it.

Regards,
Roy Morien

To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
From: sharmila.patwardhan@...
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:17:15 +0200
Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Planning poker estimation

That is about relatively sizing the stories, but when it is the first time that you are planning the sprint, how do you know , how many story points that the team can complete.
And if its only size of the story then can we really use focus factor to arrive at number of story points the team can commit to?

Best regards,
Sharmila Patwardhan, Sr. Q&P Consultant
Tieto

From: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:scrumdevelo pment@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of JackM
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 01:13
To: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Planning poker estimation

agreed 100%

--- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, Mark Levison <mark@...> wrote:
>
> Actually Jack, I think you will find that Mike's book recommends you use
> conversion from story points to hours/days only as a set of training wheels.
> I no longer teach/coach this step at all. Instead I get the time to find a
> story that they feel is fairly small i.e. two developers, a half day working
> together. Then I tell them that this story is worth 2 points. Everything
> else is estimated relative to this. Now we avoid debates about
> hours/days/minutes/ seconds :-)
>
> Cheers
> Mark
>
> *Mark Levison* | Co-Founder and Consultant -
> TheAgileConsortium<http://theagilecons ortium.com/>| Agile
> Editor @ InfoQ <http://www.infoq. com/about. jsp>
> Blog <http://www.notesfro matooluser. com/> |
> Recent Entries: Agile Mailing Lists a
> Survey<http://www.notesfro matooluser. com/2009/ 06/agile- mailing-lists. html%20>,
> Why use an Agile
> Coach<http://www.notesfro matooluser. com/2009/ 11/why-use- an-agile- coach.html>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:57 PM, JackM <jack@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Sharmila,
> >
> > I think the fact that you're doing planning poker is awesome. This is one
> > of the best games invented that really add value to the process through face
> > to face communications and collaboration
> >
> > I believe however that setting one point equal to 1 ideal day is probably
> > not a good idea. Better to make it 1 point equal to 1 ideal hour. There are
> > many tasks that take less than a day to implement so I think you need a
> > smaller starting point.
> >
> > Best would be to try and drop the coversion to ideal hours altogether at
> > some point - hopefully after you get a few sprints under your belt.
> >
> > Jack
> > www.agilebuddy. com
> > blog.agilebuddy. com
> >
> > --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com<scrumdevelopment% 40yahoogroups. com>,
> > "Sharmila D" <sharmila.patwardha n@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > We have been using poker cards for estimation, we have one story point as
> > 1 ideal day and the product backlog is estimated accordingly.
> > >
> > > The we break the stories into tasks which are estimated in hours.
> > >
> > > I would like to know some more variations of planning poker than what we
> > are doing
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> *Mark Levison* | Co-Founder and Consultant -
> TheAgileConsortium<http://theagilecons ortium.com/>| Agile
> Editor @ InfoQ <http://www.infoq. com/about. jsp>
> Blog <http://www.notesfro matooluser. com/> |