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RE: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?

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  • (no author)
    I look forward to any comments, critiques etc., to assist me in honing and elaborating these ideas. The paticular conference where this paper will be presented
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 9, 2009
    I look forward to any comments, critiques etc., to assist me in honing and elaborating these ideas.
     
    The paticular conference where this paper will be presented can be seen at http://www.inceb.org/
     
    Regards,
    Roy Morien
     

    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
    From: joshua.partogi@...
    Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 15:05:15 +1100
    Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?

     
    On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Roy Morien <roymorien@hotmail. com> wrote:
    > I have also attempted to draw in support for agile methods by defining various management practices as being reference disciplines for agile. I will be publishing this paper at a conference in Bangkok at the end of this month. If you are interested, I can post that paper here for critical discussion and as a contribution to the field.

    Hi Roy,

    Can you please post it here to the list? I'm happy to look at it for discussion.

    Cheers.

    --
    Certified Scrum Master
    http://twitter. com/scrum8 | http://blog. scrum8.com | http://jobs. scrum8.com



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  • Dan Rawsthorne
    Two words, two definitions: Agile (capital A) is about the Agile Manifesto, etc agile (small a) is about adapting to change, inspect and adapt, etc Scrum is
    Message 2 of 15 , Oct 9, 2009
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      Two words, two definitions:
      Agile (capital A) is about the Agile Manifesto, etc
      agile (small a) is about adapting to change, inspect and adapt, etc

      Scrum is about agility, not Agility. Scrum can be (and often is) used
      for Agile projects.

      Agility is a set of values, agility is a process/framework/process.

      Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, CST
      Senior Coach, Danube Technologies
      dan@..., 425-269-8628



      Adam Sroka wrote:
      >
      >
      > Agile means the stuff in the Manifesto and its application, but see
      > inline...
      >
      > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Joshua Partogi
      > <joshua.partogi@... <mailto:joshua.partogi%40gmail.com>> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I found it these days that the terms 'agile' is kind of overstated.
      > > Especially by managers or end-users that does not really know what
      > > agile in software development practice really is. I also see this in
      > > some software framework marketing when a framework is said to be agile
      > > it means it can produce a software in a blink of an eye. To some
      > > people agile means deliver something fast, but in scrum and
      > > extreme-programming practice it not merely about delivering software
      > > quickly, but it's a mean to be able to adapt with the rapid changes in
      > > user requirement. It also means it delivers the functionality that is
      > > relevant for the user's current needs. It might require pulling of
      > > some requirement to the next iteration.
      > >
      >
      > Sort of. It's about adapting to change and adapting to feedback.
      > Situations change. If we don't adapt our plan to meet those changes
      > then we should expect to fail most of the time, which we do (As an
      > industry.) We also change the situation, because our knowledge,
      > understanding, and needs grow over time. Feedback, of all kinds, is
      > very powerful. It's what makes the difference between great successes
      > and missed opportunities.
      >
      > > Now, let's take an example the practices in XP like unit-testing and
      > > refactoring, this require some time to do and doing this practice not
      > > guarantee the product will be delivered faster than if not doing it.
      > > Pair programming and continuous build also is not a mean to produce
      > > the software faster, but it will produce a software that is less
      > > error-prone.
      > >
      >
      > If the software doesn't have to work then we can build it much faster.
      > If it does have to work then we should endeavor to make it so. XP is
      > about making software that works in tiny increments so that we always
      > know what is working and what is yet to be done. If you feel you don't
      > have time to do that perhaps you should consider a different career.
      >
      > > What is your experience as a Scrum Master or Coach when dealing about
      > > this perception from someone that does not really understand what
      > > agile in software development really means? Is agile in software
      > > development really mean to deliver a software real fast? Or is this a
      > > misperception from some people when translating the word agile in
      > > software development? Or perhaps I am the one that got the wrong
      > > perception about what agile really means?
      > >
      >
      > There is a subtle but important difference between doing something
      > fast and doing something often. Even the best Agile team couldn't
      > deliver Windows in two-weeks, but I bet you they could deliver some
      > increment of running, tested software in less than a minute.
      >
      >
    • Dan Rawsthorne
      Good list, Roy, but it s Agile Software Development you are describing here... not agile development Only the Empirical and Adaptive part is agile. Dan
      Message 3 of 15 , Oct 9, 2009
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        Good list, Roy, but it's "Agile Software Development" you are describing
        here... not "agile development"

        Only the "Empirical and Adaptive" part is agile.

        Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, CST
        Senior Coach, Danube Technologies
        dan@..., 425-269-8628



        Roy Morien wrote:
        >
        >
        > I have compiled a list of 'characteristics' of 'agile development',
        > based partly on other attempts to define it. Here is that list.Maybe
        > it can be a starting point for discussion. What it does clearly imply
        > is that agile is more than 'rapid application development': more than
        > 'software prototyping', but it does, I think,subsume those prior terms
        > and practices.
        >
        >
        >
        > Drawing on a variety of sources [1, 2, 3, 4] and synthesising the
        > definitions and suggested characteristics in those sources, Agile
        > development is seen to have these characteristics:
        >
        > · *People Focused:* (1) Collaborative: collaboration between
        > developers and clients is continuous and continual, (2)
        > Self-Organizing and Self-Managing Teams: Significant responsibility is
        > handed to the team members, rather than a Project Manager, to decide
        > on the work to be done in the next iteration.
        >
        > · *Empirical and Adaptive:* Project management practices that have
        > been published to support ‘agile development’ practices are described
        > as ‘empirical’, ‘adaptive’, ‘evolutionary’ or ‘experiential’ rather
        > than ‘prescriptive’, or ‘pre-planned’.
        >
        > · *Iterative:* Development is achieved through a series of short
        > iterations each of which produces a useable enhancement to the system.
        > This provides a frequent and regular feedback cycle, and opportunities
        > for validation and verification of successful progress.
        >
        > · *Incremental*: Development is achieved through a series of
        > delivered increments to the system, each of which produces a fully
        > developed, fully tested and certified extra feature or component of
        > the system.
        >
        > · *Evolutionary*: the system grows in size, the requirements /in
        > detail/ are continuously discovered, and are continually evolving
        > during the development period.
        >
        > · *Emergent*: the whole of the system is greater than the parts. The
        > characteristics of the system emerge as parts are added.
        >
        > · *Just-in-Time Requirements** Elicitation**:* Requirements are
        > stated in detail ‘just in time’ to develop them, in the iteration in
        > which those requirements will be implemented.
        >
        > · *Knowledge-Based:* Development activity is decided upon by the
        > knowledgeable, self-managing members of the team, with continual
        > knowledge sharing about the product, the technology and the progress
        > of the project. Learning and knowledge sharing are emphasized.
        >
        > · *Client Driven, ‘*Pull-Based’ development: Only develop what is
        > asked for by the Client, and when the Client asks for it.
        >
        > Agile methods emphasize project transparency, continual communication
        > and collaboration between project partners.
        >
        >
        > I have also attempted to draw in support for agile methods by defining
        > various management practices as being reference disciplines for agile.
        > I will be publishing this paper at a conference in Bangkok at the end
        > of this month. If you are interested, I can post that paper here for
        > critical discussion and as a contribution to the field.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Roy Morien
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        > From: joshua.partogi@...
        > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:31:31 +1100
        > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?
        >
        >
        > I found it these days that the terms 'agile' is kind of overstated.
        > Especially by managers or end-users that does not really know what
        > agile in software development practice really is. I also see this in
        > some software framework marketing when a framework is said to be agile
        > it means it can produce a software in a blink of an eye. To some
        > people agile means deliver something fast, but in scrum and
        > extreme-programming practice it not merely about delivering software
        > quickly, but it's a mean to be able to adapt with the rapid changes in
        > user requirement. It also means it delivers the functionality that is
        > relevant for the user's current needs. It might require pulling of
        > some requirement to the next iteration.
        >
        > Now, let's take an example the practices in XP like unit-testing and
        > refactoring, this require some time to do and doing this practice not
        > guarantee the product will be delivered faster than if not doing it.
        > Pair programming and continuous build also is not a mean to produce
        > the software faster, but it will produce a software that is less
        > error-prone.
        >
        > What is your experience as a Scrum Master or Coach when dealing about
        > this perception from someone that does not really understand what
        > agile in software development really means? Is agile in software
        > development really mean to deliver a software real fast? Or is this a
        > misperception from some people when translating the word agile in
        > software development? Or perhaps I am the one that got the wrong
        > perception about what agile really means?
        >
        > Thanks for your insights.
        >
        > Kind Regards.
        >
        > --
        > Certified Scrum Master
        > http://twitter.com/scrum8 <http://twitter.com/scrum8> |
        > http://blog.scrum8.com <http://blog.scrum8.com/> |
        > http://jobs.scrum8.com <http://jobs.scrum8.com/>
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > Find out how here Get Hotmail on your iPhone
        > <http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=845706>
        >
      • Joshua Partogi
        On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Dan Rawsthorne ... Nice writeup Dan! Really clear explanation. In Cambridge dictionary agile basically means: the ability to
        Message 4 of 15 , Oct 9, 2009
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          On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Dan Rawsthorne
          <dan.rawsthorne@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Two words, two definitions:
          > Agile (capital A) is about the Agile Manifesto, etc
          > agile (small a) is about adapting to change, inspect and adapt, etc
          >
          > Scrum is about agility, not Agility. Scrum can be (and often is) used
          > for Agile projects.
          >
          > Agility is a set of values, agility is a process/framework/process.

          Nice writeup Dan! Really clear explanation. In Cambridge dictionary
          agile basically means: "the ability to move quickly and easily" which
          kinda pickup where most people thought that agile is about "delivering
          software quickly" when it could also be interpreted as "able to adapt
          quickly". I reckon the meaning in merriam-webster would make more
          sense what agile really means: "having a quick resourceful and
          adaptable character".

          --
          Certified Scrum Master
          http://twitter.com/scrum8 | http://blog.scrum8.com | http://jobs.scrum8.com
        • Malcolm Anderson
          Hi Joshua ... To simplify the other great answers from Roy and Dan; Yes, it is a misconception that agile is going to make your software development process
          Message 5 of 15 , Oct 9, 2009
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            Hi Joshua

            On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Joshua Partogi <joshua.partogi@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > What is your experience as a Scrum Master or Coach when dealing about
            > this perception from someone that does not really understand what
            > agile in software development really means? Is agile in software
            > development really mean to deliver a software real fast? Or is this a
            > misperception from some people when translating the word agile in
            > software development? Or perhaps I am the one that got the wrong
            > perception about what agile really means?
            >

            To simplify the other great answers from Roy and Dan; Yes, it is a
            misconception that "agile" is going to make your software development
            process faster.

            If you have good disciplines, your team is going to seem to slow down.

            The speed savings (in my experience) tend to come from the work that
            your team doesn't do. Agile teams (once your customers are used to
            getting software once or twice a week) quickly stop building software
            that their customers *MIGHT* need. This frees the team up to do more
            work for more customers.

            The speed savings (in my experience) also come from the debugging that
            your team doesn't do. I'm going to make some numbers up that feel
            right (and if someone can point to the research that either supports
            or contradicts my numbers, I'd appreciate it) but, the debugging time
            that a normal team spends at the end of a project hacking it into
            "deliverable" is cut down at least to half, probably closer to one
            third. The problem is that this debugging time is not budgeted so it
            seems like spending that debugging time up front is slowing the team
            down.

            To grossly oversimplify it:

            Which is faster, getting from New York to Miami at 40 mph going down
            the eastern sea board, or going 100 miles an hour via Seattle and LA?

            Malcolm
          • matt gelbwaks
            I love your analogy, but the one point you forgot to include was that the answer is it depends upon what your client s expecatations are. m On Fri, Oct 9,
            Message 6 of 15 , Oct 9, 2009
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              I love your analogy, but the one point you forgot to include was that the answer is "it depends upon what your client's expecatations are."

              m

              On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Malcolm Anderson <malcolm.b.anderson@...> wrote:
               

              Hi Joshua



              On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Joshua Partogi <joshua.partogi@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > What is your experience as a Scrum Master or Coach when dealing about
              > this perception from someone that does not really understand what
              > agile in software development really means? Is agile in software
              > development really mean to deliver a software real fast? Or is this a
              > misperception from some people when translating the word agile in
              > software development? Or perhaps I am the one that got the wrong
              > perception about what agile really means?
              >

              To simplify the other great answers from Roy and Dan; Yes, it is a
              misconception that "agile" is going to make your software development
              process faster.

              If you have good disciplines, your team is going to seem to slow down.

              The speed savings (in my experience) tend to come from the work that
              your team doesn't do. Agile teams (once your customers are used to
              getting software once or twice a week) quickly stop building software
              that their customers *MIGHT* need. This frees the team up to do more
              work for more customers.

              The speed savings (in my experience) also come from the debugging that
              your team doesn't do. I'm going to make some numbers up that feel
              right (and if someone can point to the research that either supports
              or contradicts my numbers, I'd appreciate it) but, the debugging time
              that a normal team spends at the end of a project hacking it into
              "deliverable" is cut down at least to half, probably closer to one
              third. The problem is that this debugging time is not budgeted so it
              seems like spending that debugging time up front is slowing the team
              down.

              To grossly oversimplify it:

              Which is faster, getting from New York to Miami at 40 mph going down
              the eastern sea board, or going 100 miles an hour via Seattle and LA?

              Malcolm



              --
              Cheers,
                     m
            • George Dinwiddie
              ... Agile Software Development is about the ability to steer the project, not speed. http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2007/07/08/what-is-agile/ - George -- ... *
              Message 7 of 15 , Oct 10, 2009
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                Joshua Partogi wrote:
                > What is your experience as a Scrum Master or Coach when dealing about
                > this perception from someone that does not really understand what
                > agile in software development really means? Is agile in software
                > development really mean to deliver a software real fast? Or is this a
                > misperception from some people when translating the word agile in
                > software development? Or perhaps I am the one that got the wrong
                > perception about what agile really means?

                Agile Software Development is about the ability to steer the project,
                not speed. http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2007/07/08/what-is-agile/

                - George

                --
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
                Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
                Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              • Roy Morien
                Well, Dan, I work in two arenas, developing software, and teaching about developing software, so I guess my main emphasis is on Agile Software Development, and
                Message 8 of 15 , Oct 11, 2009
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                  Well, Dan, I work in two arenas, developing software, and teaching about developing software, so I guess my main emphasis is on Agile Software Development, and my use of the term 'agile development' was mainly intended to be read in that context.  I am not sure as to the implications of you capitalising "Agile Software Development" however.
                   
                  But I wonder why you seek to make the distinction,and why my list is so 'narrow'?
                   
                  I have been toying with the idea, for a long time, that agile practices ought to be applied to teaching and learning. Each week is essentially an iteration, commenced with a lecture that provides students with an increment in their learning. If by the end of the week that is 'Done' (ie: well learned a understood) then the student can move on, evolving their knowledge further. As the learning period (semester term) proceeds new ideas emerge as students add to ther knowledge. Information is presented to the student 'just-in-time' to be applied to an ongoing learning exercise or project. I belive that the 'teacher' should be a facilitator and guide to what ought to be learned, rather than being the sole source of wisdom, by 'teaching' the subject matter. I like to see my lectures as signposts indicating a direction to take, and my lecture plans to be a road map of the learning terrain, which I hope the students will traverse in collaborative groups.
                   
                  I think the analogies are there and can be expoited for effective learning.
                   
                  Unfortunately, the common approach to teaching and learning is exemplified in the student complaint 'but you didn't tell us that in the lecture', and the student requirement of 'please give us some exam hints for the exam next week', and the habit of cramming and memorizing the day before the final exam. Memorizing but not understanding. I prefer the model where the students start learning on a continual basis from week 1, working in supportive study groups, so by the time they arrive at the final exam, their confidence is at its highest, not its lowest. (which seems to be another similarity to software projects done in  the traditional way, where the maximum level of angst and anxiey is just before that great Feast Day known an Implementation Day.
                   
                  Anyway, Thanks for you response, and maybe a further explanation of your comments.
                   
                  Regards,
                  Roy Morien

                   
                  > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: dan.rawsthorne@...
                  > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 03:26:38 -0700
                  > Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] RE: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?
                  >
                  > Good list, Roy, but it's "Agile Software Development" you are describing
                  > here... not "agile development"
                  >
                  > Only the "Empirical and Adaptive" part is agile.
                  >
                  > Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, CST
                  > Senior Coach, Danube Technologies
                  > dan@..., 425-269-8628
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Roy Morien wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I have compiled a list of 'characteristics' of 'agile development',
                  > > based partly on other attempts to define it. Here is that list.Maybe
                  > > it can be a starting point for discussion. What it does clearly imply
                  > > is that agile is more than 'rapid application development': more than
                  > > 'software prototyping', but it does, I think,subsume those prior terms
                  > > and practices.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Drawing on a variety of sources [1, 2, 3, 4] and synthesising the
                  > > definitions and suggested characteristics in those sources, Agile
                  > > development is seen to have these characteristics:
                  > >
                  > > · *People Focused:* (1) Collaborative: collaboration between
                  > > developers and clients is continuous and continual, (2)
                  > > Self-Organizing and Self-Managing Teams: Significant responsibility is
                  > > handed to the team members, rather than a Project Manager, to decide
                  > > on the work to be done in the next iteration.
                  > >
                  > > · *Empirical and Adaptive:* Project management practices that have
                  > > been published to support ‘agile development’ practices are described
                  > > as ‘empirical’, ‘adaptive’, ‘evolutionary’ or ‘experiential’ rather
                  > > than ‘prescriptive’, or ‘pre-planned’.
                  > >
                  > > · *Iterative:* Development is achieved through a series of short
                  > > iterations each of which produces a useable enhancement to the system.
                  > > This provides a frequent and regular feedback cycle, and opportunities
                  > > for validation and verification of successful progress.
                  > >
                  > > · *Incremental*: Development is achieved through a series of
                  > > delivered increments to the system, each of which produces a fully
                  > > developed, fully tested and certified extra feature or component of
                  > > the system.
                  > >
                  > > · *Evolutionary*: the system grows in size, the requirements /in
                  > > detail/ are continuously discovered, and are continually evolving
                  > > during the development period.
                  > >
                  > > · *Emergent*: the whole of the system is greater than the parts. The
                  > > characteristics of the system emerge as parts are added.
                  > >
                  > > · *Just-in-Time Requirements** Elicitation**:* Requirements are
                  > > stated in detail ‘just in time’ to develop them, in the iteration in
                  > > which those requirements will be implemented.
                  > >
                  > > · *Knowledge-Based:* Development activity is decided upon by the
                  > > knowledgeable, self-managing members of the team, with continual
                  > > knowledge sharing about the product, the technology and the progress
                  > > of the project. Learning and knowledge sharing are emphasized.
                  > >
                  > > · *Client Driven, ‘*Pull-Based’ development: Only develop what is
                  > > asked for by the Client, and when the Client asks for it.
                  > >
                  > > Agile methods emphasize project transparency, continual communication
                  > > and collaboration between project partners.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I have also attempted to draw in support for agile methods by defining
                  > > various management practices as being reference disciplines for agile.
                  > > I will be publishing this paper at a conference in Bangkok at the end
                  > > of this month. If you are interested, I can post that paper here for
                  > > critical discussion and as a contribution to the field.
                  > >
                  > > Regards,
                  > > Roy Morien
                  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  > > From: joshua.partogi@...
                  > > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:31:31 +1100
                  > > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I found it these days that the terms 'agile' is kind of overstated.
                  > > Especially by managers or end-users that does not really know what
                  > > agile in software development practice really is. I also see this in
                  > > some software framework marketing when a framework is said to be agile
                  > > it means it can produce a software in a blink of an eye. To some
                  > > people agile means deliver something fast, but in scrum and
                  > > extreme-programming practice it not merely about delivering software
                  > > quickly, but it's a mean to be able to adapt with the rapid changes in
                  > > user requirement. It also means it delivers the functionality that is
                  > > relevant for the user's current needs. It might require pulling of
                  > > some requirement to the next iteration.
                  > >
                  > > Now, let's take an example the practices in XP like unit-testing and
                  > > refactoring, this require some time to do and doing this practice not
                  > > guarantee the product will be delivered faster than if not doing it.
                  > > Pair programming and continuous build also is not a mean to produce
                  > > the software faster, but it will produce a software that is less
                  > > error-prone.
                  > >
                  > > What is your experience as a Scrum Master or Coach when dealing about
                  > > this perception from someone that does not really understand what
                  > > agile in software development really means? Is agile in software
                  > > development really mean to deliver a software real fast? Or is this a
                  > > misperception from some people when translating the word agile in
                  > > software development? Or perhaps I am the one that got the wrong
                  > > perception about what agile really means?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for your insights.
                  > >
                  > > Kind Regards.
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Certified Scrum Master
                  > > http://twitter.com/scrum8 <http://twitter.com/scrum8> |
                  > > http://blog.scrum8.com <http://blog.scrum8.com/> |
                  > > http://jobs.scrum8.com <http://jobs.scrum8.com/>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > Find out how here Get Hotmail on your iPhone
                  > > <http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=845706>
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • pmrostal@comcast.net
                  Hi Roy, For an example of agile practices, values, and principles being applied in a university setting, see
                  Message 9 of 15 , Oct 11, 2009
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                    Hi Roy,

                    For an example of agile practices, values, and principles being applied in a university setting, see http://www.infoq.com/articles/NMHU-scrum-university-apprentice.

                    pam

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Roy Morien" <roymorien@...>
                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 9:46:12 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
                    Subject: RE: [!! SPAM]  RE: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?

                     

                    Well, Dan, I work in two arenas, developing software, and teaching about developing software, so I guess my main emphasis is on Agile Software Development, and my use of the term 'agile development' was mainly intended to be read in that context.  I am not sure as to the implications of you capitalising "Agile Software Development" however.
                     
                    But I wonder why you seek to make the distinction,and why my list is so 'narrow'?
                     
                    I have been toying with the idea, for a long time, that agile practices ought to be applied to teaching and learning. Each week is essentially an iteration, commenced with a lecture that provides students with an increment in their learning. If by the end of the week that is 'Done' (ie: well learned a understood) then the student can move on, evolving their knowledge further. As the learning period (semester term) proceeds new ideas emerge as students add to ther knowledge. Information is presented to the student 'just-in-time' to be applied to an ongoing learning exercise or project. I belive that the 'teacher' should be a facilitator and guide to what ought to be learned, rather than being the sole source of wisdom, by 'teaching' the subject matter. I like to see my lectures as signposts indicating a direction to take, and my lecture plans to be a road map of the learning terrain, which I hope the students will traverse in collaborative groups.
                     
                    I think the analogies are there and can be expoited for effective learning.
                     
                    Unfortunately, the common approach to teaching and learning is exemplified in the student complaint 'but you didn't tell us that in the lecture', and the student requirement of 'please give us some exam hints for the exam next week', and the habit of cramming and memorizing the day before the final exam. Memorizing but not understanding. I prefer the model where the students start learning on a continual basis from week 1, working in supportive study groups, so by the time they arrive at the final exam, their confidence is at its highest, not its lowest. (which seems to be another similarity to software projects done in  the traditional way, where the maximum level of angst and anxiey is just before that great Feast Day known an Implementation Day.
                     
                    Anyway, Thanks for you response, and maybe a further explanation of your comments.
                     
                    Regards,
                    Roy Morien

                     
                    > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: dan.rawsthorne@...
                    > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 03:26:38 -0700
                    > Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] RE: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?
                    >
                    > Good list, Roy, but it's "Agile Software Development" you are describing
                    > here... not "agile development"
                    >
                    > Only the "Empirical and Adaptive" part is agile.
                    >
                    > Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, CST
                    > Senior Coach, Danube Technologies
                    > dan@..., 425-269-8628
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Roy Morien wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I have compiled a list of 'characteristics' of 'agile development',
                    > > based partly on other attempts to define it. Here is that list.Maybe
                    > > it can be a starting point for discussion. What it does clearly imply
                    > > is that agile is more than 'rapid application development': more than
                    > > 'software prototyping', but it does, I think,subsume those prior terms
                    > > and practices.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Drawing on a variety of sources [1, 2, 3, 4] and synthesising the
                    > > definitions and suggested characteristics in those sources, Agile
                    > > development is seen to have these characteristics:
                    > >
                    > > · *People Focused:* (1) Collaborative: collaboration between
                    > > developers and clients is continuous and continual, (2)
                    > > Self-Organizing and Self-Managing Teams: Significant responsibility is
                    > > handed to the team members, rather than a Project Manager, to decide
                    > > on the work to be done in the next iteration.
                    > >
                    > > · *Empirical and Adaptive:* Project management practices that have
                    > > been published to support ‘agile development’ practices are described
                    > > as ‘empirical’, ‘adaptive’, ‘evolutionary’ or ‘experiential’ rather
                    > > than ‘prescriptive’, or ‘pre-planned’.
                    > >
                    > > · *Iterative:* Development is achieved through a series of short
                    > > iterations each of which produces a useable enhancement to the system.
                    > > This provides a frequent and regular feedback cycle, and opportunities
                    > > for validation and verification of successful progress.
                    > >
                    > > · *Incremental*: Development is achieved through a series of
                    > > delivered increments to the system, each of which produces a fully
                    > > developed, fully tested and certified extra feature or component of
                    > > the system.
                    > >
                    > > · *Evolutionary*: the system grows in size, the requirements /in
                    > > detail/ are continuously discovered, and are continually evolving
                    > > during the development period.
                    > >
                    > > · *Emergent*: the whole of the system is greater than the parts. The
                    > > characteristics of the system emerge as parts are added.
                    > >
                    > > · *Just-in-Time Requirements** Elicitation**:* Requirements are
                    > > stated in detail ‘just in time’ to develop them, in the iteration in
                    > > which those requirements will be implemented.
                    > >
                    > > · *Knowledge-Based:* Development activity is decided upon by the
                    > > knowledgeable, self-managing members of the team, with continual
                    > > knowledge sharing about the product, the technology and the progress
                    > > of the project. Learning and knowledge sharing are emphasized.
                    > >
                    > > · *Client Driven, ‘*Pull-Based’ development: Only develop what is
                    > > asked for by the Client, and when the Client asks for it.
                    > >
                    > > Agile methods emphasize project transparency, continual communication
                    > > and collaboration between project partners.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I have also attempted to draw in support for agile methods by defining
                    > > various management practices as being reference disciplines for agile.
                    > > I will be publishing this paper at a conference in Bangkok at the end
                    > > of this month. If you are interested, I can post that paper here for
                    > > critical discussion and as a contribution to the field.
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > > Roy Morien
                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    > > From: joshua.partogi@...
                    > > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:31:31 +1100
                    > > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I found it these days that the terms 'agile' is kind of overstated.
                    > > Especially by managers or end-users that does not really know what
                    > > agile in software development practice really is. I also see this in
                    > > some software framework marketing when a framework is said to be agile
                    > > it means it can produce a software in a blink of an eye. To some
                    > > people agile means deliver something fast, but in scrum and
                    > > extreme-programming practice it not merely about delivering software
                    > > quickly, but it's a mean to be able to adapt with the rapid changes in
                    > > user requirement. It also means it delivers the functionality that is
                    > > relevant for the user's current needs. It might require pulling of
                    > > some requirement to the next iteration.
                    > >
                    > > Now, let's take an example the practices in XP like unit-testing and
                    > > refactoring, this require some time to do and doing this practice not
                    > > guarantee the product will be delivered faster than if not doing it.
                    > > Pair programming and continuous build also is not a mean to produce
                    > > the software faster, but it will produce a software that is less
                    > > error-prone.
                    > >
                    > > What is your experience as a Scrum Master or Coach when dealing about
                    > > this perception from someone that does not really understand what
                    > > agile in software development really means? Is agile in software
                    > > development really mean to deliver a software real fast? Or is this a
                    > > misperception from some people when translating the word agile in
                    > > software development? Or perhaps I am the one that got the wrong
                    > > perception about what agile really means?
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for your insights.
                    > >
                    > > Kind Regards.
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Certified Scrum Master
                    > > http://twitter.com/scrum8 <http://twitter.com/scrum8> |
                    > > http://blog.scrum8.com <http://blog.scrum8.com/> |
                    > > http://jobs.scrum8.com <http://jobs.scrum8.com/>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > Find out how here Get Hotmail on your iPhone
                    > > <http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=845706>
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
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                  • Roy Morien
                    Hi Pam, I like the paper and the endeavour that it descibes. I do have in mind applying agile thinking more generally to the presentation of a subject,
                    Message 10 of 15 , Oct 11, 2009
                    Hi Pam,
                     
                    I like the paper and the endeavour that it descibes. I do have in mind applying 'agile thinking' more generally to the presentation of a subject, replacing the 12 lectures and a final exam style of T&L.
                     
                    I have attached 2 papers that I have presented  at conferences about student experience using agile. The papers are obviously very similar, but one is sort of Paper Number One: The Sequel.
                     
                    Regards,
                    Roy Morien
                     

                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    From: pmrostal@...
                    Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 03:08:06 +0000
                    Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] RE: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?

                     
                    Hi Roy,

                    For an example of agile practices, values, and principles being applied in a university setting, see http://www.infoq. com/articles/ NMHU-scrum- university- apprentice.

                    pam

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Roy Morien" <roymorien@hotmail. com>
                    To: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 9:46:12 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
                    Subject: RE: [!! SPAM]  RE: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?

                     

                    Well, Dan, I work in two arenas, developing software, and teaching about developing software, so I guess my main emphasis is on Agile Software Development, and my use of the term 'agile development' was mainly intended to be read in that context.  I am not sure as to the implications of you capitalising "Agile Software Development" however.
                     
                    But I wonder why you seek to make the distinction, and why my list is so 'narrow'?
                     
                    I have been toying with the idea, for a long time, that agile practices ought to be applied to teaching and learning. Each week is essentially an iteration, commenced with a lecture that provides students with an increment in their learning. If by the end of the week that is 'Done' (ie: well learned a understood) then the student can move on, evolving their knowledge further. As the learning period (semester term) proceeds new ideas emerge as students add to ther knowledge. Information is presented to the student 'just-in-time' to be applied to an ongoing learning exercise or project. I belive that the 'teacher' should be a facilitator and guide to what ought to be learned, rather than being the sole source of wisdom, by 'teaching' the subject matter. I like to see my lectures as signposts indicating a direction to take, and my lecture plans to be a road map of the learning terrain, which I hope the students will traverse in collaborative groups.
                     
                    I think the analogies are there and can be expoited for effective learning.
                     
                    Unfortunately, the common approach to teaching and learning is exemplified in the student complaint 'but you didn't tell us that in the lecture', and the student requirement of 'please give us some exam hints for the exam next week', and the habit of cramming and memorizing the day before the final exam. Memorizing but not understanding. I prefer the model where the students start learning on a continual basis from week 1, working in supportive study groups, so by the time they arrive at the final exam, their confidence is at its highest, not its lowest. (which seems to be another similarity to software projects done in  the traditional way, where the maximum level of angst and anxiey is just before that great Feast Day known an Implementation Day.
                     
                    Anyway, Thanks for you response, and maybe a further explanation of your comments.
                     
                    Regards,
                    Roy Morien

                     
                    > To: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
                    > From: dan.rawsthorne@ drdansplace. com
                    > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 03:26:38 -0700
                    > Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] RE: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?
                    >
                    > Good list, Roy, but it's "Agile Software Development" you are describing
                    > here... not "agile development"
                    >
                    > Only the "Empirical and Adaptive" part is agile.
                    >
                    > Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, CST
                    > Senior Coach, Danube Technologies
                    > dan@..., 425-269-8628
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Roy Morien wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I have compiled a list of 'characteristics' of 'agile development' ,
                    > > based partly on other attempts to define it. Here is that list.Maybe
                    > > it can be a starting point for discussion. What it does clearly imply
                    > > is that agile is more than 'rapid application development' : more than
                    > > 'software prototyping' , but it does, I think,subsume those prior terms
                    > > and practices.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Drawing on a variety of sources [1, 2, 3, 4] and synthesising the
                    > > definitions and suggested characteristics in those sources, Agile
                    > > development is seen to have these characteristics:
                    > >
                    > > · *People Focused:* (1) Collaborative: collaboration between
                    > > developers and clients is continuous and continual, (2)
                    > > Self-Organizing and Self-Managing Teams: Significant responsibility is
                    > > handed to the team members, rather than a Project Manager, to decide
                    > > on the work to be done in the next iteration.
                    > >
                    > > · *Empirical and Adaptive:* Project management practices that have
                    > > been published to support ‘agile development’ practices are described
                    > > as ‘empirical’, ‘adaptive’, ‘evolutionary’ or ‘experiential’ rather
                    > > than ‘prescriptive’, or ‘pre-planned’.
                    > >
                    > > · *Iterative:* Development is achieved through a series of short
                    > > iterations each of which produces a useable enhancement to the system.
                    > > This provides a frequent and regular feedback cycle, and opportunities
                    > > for validation and verification of successful progress.
                    > >
                    > > · *Incremental* : Development is achieved through a series of
                    > > delivered increments to the system, each of which produces a fully
                    > > developed, fully tested and certified extra feature or component of
                    > > the system.
                    > >
                    > > · *Evolutionary* : the system grows in size, the requirements /in
                    > > detail/ are continuously discovered, and are continually evolving
                    > > during the development period.
                    > >
                    > > · *Emergent*: the whole of the system is greater than the parts. The
                    > > characteristics of the system emerge as parts are added.
                    > >
                    > > · *Just-in-Time Requirements* * Elicitation* *:* Requirements are
                    > > stated in detail ‘just in time’ to develop them, in the iteration in
                    > > which those requirements will be implemented.
                    > >
                    > > · *Knowledge-Based: * Development activity is decided upon by the
                    > > knowledgeable, self-managing members of the team, with continual
                    > > knowledge sharing about the product, the technology and the progress
                    > > of the project. Learning and knowledge sharing are emphasized.
                    > >
                    > > · *Client Driven, ‘*Pull-Based’ development: Only develop what is
                    > > asked for by the Client, and when the Client asks for it.
                    > >
                    > > Agile methods emphasize project transparency, continual communication
                    > > and collaboration between project partners.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I have also attempted to draw in support for agile methods by defining
                    > > various management practices as being reference disciplines for agile.
                    > > I will be publishing this paper at a conference in Bangkok at the end
                    > > of this month. If you are interested, I can post that paper here for
                    > > critical discussion and as a contribution to the field.
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > > Roy Morien
                    > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------
                    > > To: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
                    > > From: joshua.partogi@ gmail.com
                    > > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:31:31 +1100
                    > > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I found it these days that the terms 'agile' is kind of overstated.
                    > > Especially by managers or end-users that does not really know what
                    > > agile in software development practice really is. I also see this in
                    > > some software framework marketing when a framework is said to be agile
                    > > it means it can produce a software in a blink of an eye. To some
                    > > people agile means deliver something fast, but in scrum and
                    > > extreme-programming practice it not merely about delivering software
                    > > quickly, but it's a mean to be able to adapt with the rapid changes in
                    > > user requirement. It also means it delivers the functionality that is
                    > > relevant for the user's current needs. It might require pulling of
                    > > some requirement to the next iteration.
                    > >
                    > > Now, let's take an example the practices in XP like unit-testing and
                    > > refactoring, this require some time to do and doing this practice not
                    > > guarantee the product will be delivered faster than if not doing it.
                    > > Pair programming and continuous build also is not a mean to produce
                    > > the software faster, but it will produce a software that is less
                    > > error-prone.
                    > >
                    > > What is your experience as a Scrum Master or Coach when dealing about
                    > > this perception from someone that does not really understand what
                    > > agile in software development really means? Is agile in software
                    > > development really mean to deliver a software real fast? Or is this a
                    > > misperception from some people when translating the word agile in
                    > > software development? Or perhaps I am the one that got the wrong
                    > > perception about what agile really means?
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for your insights.
                    > >
                    > > Kind Regards.
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Certified Scrum Master
                    > > http://twitter. com/scrum8 <http://twitter. com/scrum8> |
                    > > http://blog. scrum8.com <http://blog. scrum8.com/> |
                    > > http://jobs. scrum8.com <http://jobs. scrum8.com/>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------
                    > > Find out how here Get Hotmail on your iPhone
                    > > <http://windowslive. ninemsn.com. au/article. aspx?id=845706>
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@ eGroups.com
                    > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment- unsubscribe@ eGroups.comYahoo ! Groups Links
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                    Check out The Great Australian Pay Check Take a peek at other people's pay and perks



                    Check out The Great Australian Pay Check Take a peek at other people's pay and perks
                  • Dan Rawsthorne
                    I capitalize Agile Software Development because the authors of the Agile Manifest do so, and they claim that ASD is defined by the manifesto. Ok, no problem...
                    Message 11 of 15 , Oct 12, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I capitalize Agile Software Development because the authors of the Agile
                      Manifest do so, and they claim that ASD is defined by the manifesto. Ok,
                      no problem...

                      I want to use the word "agile" to mean only what it means in scrum;
                      that's it's an empirical process. I believe that agility is useful in
                      all things, and it is the exact antithesis if "predictive". Everything
                      else is values, as in the Manifesto, and not process, IMHO.

                      Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, CST
                      Senior Coach, Danube Technologies
                      dan@..., 425-269-8628



                      Roy Morien wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Well, Dan, I work in two arenas, developing software, and teaching
                      > about developing software, so I guess my main emphasis is on Agile
                      > Software Development, and my use of the term 'agile development' was
                      > mainly intended to be read in that context. I am not sure as to the
                      > implications of you capitalising "Agile Software Development" however.
                      >
                      > But I wonder why you seek to make the distinction,and why my list is
                      > so 'narrow'?
                      >
                      > I have been toying with the idea, for a long time, that agile
                      > practices ought to be applied to teaching and learning. Each week is
                      > essentially an iteration, commenced with a lecture that provides
                      > students with an increment in their learning. If by the end of the
                      > week that is 'Done' (ie: well learned a understood) then the student
                      > can move on, evolving their knowledge further. As the learning period
                      > (semester term) proceeds new ideas emerge as students add to ther
                      > knowledge. Information is presented to the student 'just-in-time' to
                      > be applied to an ongoing learning exercise or project. I belive that
                      > the 'teacher' should be a facilitator and guide to what ought to be
                      > learned, rather than being the sole source of wisdom, by 'teaching'
                      > the subject matter. I like to see my lectures as signposts indicating
                      > a direction to take, and my lecture plans to be a road map of the
                      > learning terrain, which I hope the students will traverse in
                      > collaborative groups.
                      >
                      > I think the analogies are there and can be expoited for effective
                      > learning.
                      >
                      > Unfortunately, the common approach to teaching and learning is
                      > exemplified in the student complaint 'but you didn't tell us that in
                      > the lecture', and the student requirement of 'please give us some exam
                      > hints for the exam next week', and the habit of cramming and
                      > memorizing the day before the final exam. Memorizing but not
                      > understanding. I prefer the model where the students start learning on
                      > a continual basis from week 1, working in supportive study groups, so
                      > by the time they arrive at the final exam, their confidence is at its
                      > highest, not its lowest. (which seems to be another similarity to
                      > software projects done in the traditional way, where the maximum
                      > level of angst and anxiey is just before that great Feast Day known an
                      > Implementation Day.
                      >
                      > Anyway, Thanks for you response, and maybe a further explanation of
                      > your comments.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Roy Morien
                      >
                      >
                      > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      > > From: dan.rawsthorne@...
                      > > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 03:26:38 -0700
                      > > Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] RE: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really
                      > mean?
                      > >
                      > > Good list, Roy, but it's "Agile Software Development" you are describing
                      > > here... not "agile development"
                      > >
                      > > Only the "Empirical and Adaptive" part is agile.
                      > >
                      > > Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, CST
                      > > Senior Coach, Danube Technologies
                      > > dan@..., 425-269-8628
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Roy Morien wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > I have compiled a list of 'characteristics' of 'agile development',
                      > > > based partly on other attempts to define it. Here is that list.Maybe
                      > > > it can be a starting point for discussion. What it does clearly imply
                      > > > is that agile is more than 'rapid application development': more than
                      > > > 'software prototyping', but it does, I think,subsume those prior
                      > terms
                      > > > and practices.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Drawing on a variety of sources [1, 2, 3, 4] and synthesising the
                      > > > definitions and suggested characteristics in those sources, Agile
                      > > > development is seen to have these characteristics:
                      > > >
                      > > > · *People Focused:* (1) Collaborative: collaboration between
                      > > > developers and clients is continuous and continual, (2)
                      > > > Self-Organizing and Self-Managing Teams: Significant
                      > responsibility is
                      > > > handed to the team members, rather than a Project Manager, to decide
                      > > > on the work to be done in the next iteration.
                      > > >
                      > > > · *Empirical and Adaptive:* Project management practices that have
                      > > > been published to support ‘agile development’ practices are described
                      > > > as ‘empirical’, ‘adaptive’, ‘evolutionary’ or ‘experiential’ rather
                      > > > than ‘prescriptive’, or ‘pre-planned’.
                      > > >
                      > > > · *Iterative:* Development is achieved through a series of short
                      > > > iterations each of which produces a useable enhancement to the
                      > system.
                      > > > This provides a frequent and regular feedback cycle, and
                      > opportunities
                      > > > for validation and verification of successful progress.
                      > > >
                      > > > · *Incremental*: Development is achieved through a series of
                      > > > delivered increments to the system, each of which produces a fully
                      > > > developed, fully tested and certified extra feature or component of
                      > > > the system.
                      > > >
                      > > > · *Evolutionary*: the system grows in size, the requirements /in
                      > > > detail/ are continuously discovered, and are continually evolving
                      > > > during the development period.
                      > > >
                      > > > · *Emergent*: the whole of the system is greater than the parts. The
                      > > > characteristics of the system emerge as parts are added.
                      > > >
                      > > > · *Just-in-Time Requirements** Elicitation**:* Requirements are
                      > > > stated in detail ‘just in time’ to develop them, in the iteration in
                      > > > which those requirements will be implemented.
                      > > >
                      > > > · *Knowledge-Based:* Development activity is decided upon by the
                      > > > knowledgeable, self-managing members of the team, with continual
                      > > > knowledge sharing about the product, the technology and the progress
                      > > > of the project. Learning and knowledge sharing are emphasized.
                      > > >
                      > > > · *Client Driven, ‘*Pull-Based’ development: Only develop what is
                      > > > asked for by the Client, and when the Client asks for it.
                      > > >
                      > > > Agile methods emphasize project transparency, continual communication
                      > > > and collaboration between project partners.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > I have also attempted to draw in support for agile methods by
                      > defining
                      > > > various management practices as being reference disciplines for
                      > agile.
                      > > > I will be publishing this paper at a conference in Bangkok at the end
                      > > > of this month. If you are interested, I can post that paper here for
                      > > > critical discussion and as a contribution to the field.
                      > > >
                      > > > Regards,
                      > > > Roy Morien
                      > > >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > From: joshua.partogi@...
                      > > > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:31:31 +1100
                      > > > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] What does agile really mean?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > I found it these days that the terms 'agile' is kind of overstated.
                      > > > Especially by managers or end-users that does not really know what
                      > > > agile in software development practice really is. I also see this in
                      > > > some software framework marketing when a framework is said to be agile
                      > > > it means it can produce a software in a blink of an eye. To some
                      > > > people agile means deliver something fast, but in scrum and
                      > > > extreme-programming practice it not merely about delivering software
                      > > > quickly, but it's a mean to be able to adapt with the rapid changes in
                      > > > user requirement. It also means it delivers the functionality that is
                      > > > relevant for the user's current needs. It might require pulling of
                      > > > some requirement to the next iteration.
                      > > >
                      > > > Now, let's take an example the practices in XP like unit-testing and
                      > > > refactoring, this require some time to do and doing this practice not
                      > > > guarantee the product will be delivered faster than if not doing it.
                      > > > Pair programming and continuous build also is not a mean to produce
                      > > > the software faster, but it will produce a software that is less
                      > > > error-prone.
                      > > >
                      > > > What is your experience as a Scrum Master or Coach when dealing about
                      > > > this perception from someone that does not really understand what
                      > > > agile in software development really means? Is agile in software
                      > > > development really mean to deliver a software real fast? Or is this a
                      > > > misperception from some people when translating the word agile in
                      > > > software development? Or perhaps I am the one that got the wrong
                      > > > perception about what agile really means?
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks for your insights.
                      > > >
                      > > > Kind Regards.
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > Certified Scrum Master
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                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
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