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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: kanban korrection

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  • Tobias Mayer
    Hi Karl, I read the article. Good stuff. Honestly, if you changed every occurrence of the word Kanban for Scrum your article would still read intelligently
    Message 1 of 63 , Jul 11, 2009
      Hi Karl,

      I read the article.  Good stuff. Honestly, if you changed every occurrence of the word "Kanban" for "Scrum" your article would still read intelligently and accurately.  What does Kanban add that is not already in Scrum? 

      Scrum remember is not a defined process.  It is simply a framework that allows teams to create a process for themselves that suits their context/people/product/business environment and so on.  The mistake people often make with Scrum is to think they have to do it a certain way, according to a book -- or more often a tool.  That is a mistake, and one that causes people to say "Scrum doesn't work". 

      As far as I can make out, "Kanban" as a new software process/methodology/whatever was invented because someone's (limited) idea of what Scrum is didn't work for them.  Finding ways to be creative within the Scrum framework is to be applauded, but believing one is doing something radically new and giving it a new name just seems like unnecessary overhead.


      Karl Scotland wrote:

      Hi Tobias

      > my reaction would be: please tell me how Kanban is a way of being.

      That's probably off topic for this list. One of my recent blog posts discusses how kanban is more than a tool:
      http://availagility .wordpress. com/2009/ 07/09/does- kanban-respect- people-self- organisation- and-continuous- improvement/

      I invite anyone wanting to learn more about kanban to join the kanbandev group:
      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/kanbandev/

      Alternatively, more info can be found at the Limited WIP Society:
      http://www.limitedw ipsociety. org/


    • Petri Heiramo
      Interesting comments, Victor, ... Good reasoning is also dependent on culture and background. For some, the _logical_ ( I mean, it s not reasonable to expect
      Message 63 of 63 , Jul 14, 2009
        Interesting comments, Victor,

        > I would like to add here that common sense is very different from using a
        > good reasoning.
        > Common sense depends a lot more on culture than reasoning and good
        > thinking.

        Good reasoning is also dependent on culture and background. For some, the _logical_ ("I mean, it's not reasonable to expect me to give you a quote on what it will cost if you can't be more specific than that!") way to buy software is waterfall...

        Anyway, you're right in that "common sense" is defined by each person, and it's usually used to demean something "stupid" someone else does. :)

        > In many aspects I think, today, common sense is actually the enemy of an
        > empirical control method.

        There may be conditioning in the picture, too.


        Petri Heiramo
        Process Development Manager, Agile Coach (CST)
        Digia Plc., Finland
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