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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Coordinating Scrum ceremonies when seperated by 10 1/2 hours

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  • Hank Roark
    Yes. No one seems happy right now, but no one seems really upset. I m just out looking for other objective data.
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 2, 2009
      Yes. No one seems happy right now, but no one seems really upset.
      I'm just out looking for other objective data.

      On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Michael Vizdos<mvizdos@...> wrote:
      > Have you asked the team(s)?
      >
      > Thank you,
      >
      > - Mike Vizdos
      >  www.michaelvizdos.com
      >  www.implementingscrum.com
      >
      > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Hank Roark<Hank.Roark@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >> I have a very tactical question and am looking for any advice from
      >> others on what has worked for them in the past.
      >>
      >> I have a team of 8 people, four in the US on Central (Daylight)
      >> Timezone, four in India on India Standard Time. The team members in
      >> India are 10 1/2 hours ahead of the team members in the US.
      >>
      >> I am looking for suggestions on how to coordinate Sprint Planning
      >> (currently taking 6 hours for a 3 week sprint), Daily Scrum (as you
      >> all know, 15 minutes), Sprint Review (time boxed to 1 hour), and
      >> Retrospective (time boxed to 1 hour). Our sprints are 3 weeks long.
      >>
      >> Ideally all team members would be present for all four ceremonies (but
      >> maybe that is not feasible...I don't know).
      >>
      >> Does anyone have suggestions / experiences on how they have dealt with
      >> scheduling the Scrum ceremonies when the team is this far different in
      >> time? Specifics would be helpful, if you don't mind sharing.
      >>
      >> (Yes, I know, make them co-located and solve my problems...that's an
      >> organizational impediment that I cannot overcome right now...maybe in
      >> the future...so I need to do the art of the possible for now.)
      >>
      >> Cheers,
      >> Hank
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
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      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Hank Roark
      This is a feature team, working on a single feature set. Interesting this suggestion... it seems opposite to how I read the SirsiDynix and Xebia case
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 2, 2009
        This is a 'feature' team, working on a single feature set.
        Interesting this suggestion... it seems opposite to how I read the
        SirsiDynix and Xebia case studies by Sutherland (of course, I don't
        think the time differences were as big in his cases). I read them to
        say that the feature team was distributed across at least two
        locations and they somehow coordinated these ceremonies. Maybe I
        misunderstood those papers.

        We have had the folks visit each other and continue to do so (but they
        have recently transitioned to Scrum, so the visits haven't necessarily
        been in support of the transition). Good thoughts.

        On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:14 PM, jmilunsky<jack@...> wrote:
        > The best way to do this is to get the India folks, even just the more senior ones to come over to the US for the first 2 sprints. Get them acquainted with the project and the people and get them into the groove. Then when they go back they're already familiar with the process the culture and have a good feel for the project.
        >
        > Next it would be best to have the India Team working on their own pieces of functionality so that they can run their own scrums and not have to be too dependent on the US folks. SO try to split the work across really well defined boundaries. Try let them deal with a complete vertical slice of the code or if there are crystal clear interface definitions then it just makes the division of tasks so much easier. Then you can have a very short scrum of scrums at a time that is convenient for both parties.
        >
        > Also, it's probably a good idea that a senior developer from the US go to India from time to time to keep the teams synchronized
        >
        > Hope this helps
        > Jack
        > www.agilebuddy.com
        > blog.agilebuddy.com
        > twitter.com/agilebuddy
        >
        >
        >  can hold their own scrums
        >
        > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Hank Roark <Hank.Roark@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> I have a very tactical question and am looking for any advice from
        >> others on what has worked for them in the past.
        >>
        >> I have a team of 8 people, four in the US on Central (Daylight)
        >> Timezone, four in India on India Standard Time.  The team members in
        >> India are 10 1/2 hours ahead of the team members in the US.
        >>
        >> I am looking for suggestions on how to coordinate Sprint Planning
        >> (currently taking 6 hours for a 3 week sprint), Daily Scrum (as you
        >> all know, 15 minutes), Sprint Review (time boxed to 1 hour), and
        >> Retrospective (time boxed to 1 hour).  Our sprints are 3 weeks long.
        >>
        >> Ideally all team members would be present for all four ceremonies (but
        >> maybe that is not feasible...I don't know).
        >>
        >> Does anyone have suggestions / experiences on how they have dealt with
        >> scheduling the Scrum ceremonies when the team is this far different in
        >> time? Specifics would be helpful, if you don't mind sharing.
        >>
        >> (Yes, I know, make them co-located and solve my problems...that's an
        >> organizational impediment that I cannot overcome right now...maybe in
        >> the future...so I need to do the art of the possible for now.)
        >>
        >> Cheers,
        >> Hank
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Michael Vizdos
        So is it apathy? Part of the reason asking these basic questions is trying to get at the root of the issue for your team. Other answers here seem helpful, but
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 2, 2009
          So is it apathy?

          Part of the reason asking these basic questions is trying to get at
          the root of the issue for your team.

          Other answers here seem helpful, but in reality the team needs to make
          a decision. And this does not seem to be happening for some reason.

          Just my two cents.

          Thank you.

          - mike vizdos
          www.michaelvizdos.com
          www.implementingscrum.com

          On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Hank Roark<Hank.Roark@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Yes. No one seems happy right now, but no one seems really upset.
          > I'm just out looking for other objective data.
          >
          > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Michael Vizdos<mvizdos@...> wrote:
          >> Have you asked the team(s)?
          >>
          >> Thank you,
          >>
          >> - Mike Vizdos
          >>  www.michaelvizdos.com
          >>  www.implementingscrum.com
          >>
          >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Hank Roark<Hank.Roark@...> wrote:
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> I have a very tactical question and am looking for any advice from
          >>> others on what has worked for them in the past.
          >>>
          >>> I have a team of 8 people, four in the US on Central (Daylight)
          >>> Timezone, four in India on India Standard Time. The team members in
          >>> India are 10 1/2 hours ahead of the team members in the US.
          >>>
          >>> I am looking for suggestions on how to coordinate Sprint Planning
          >>> (currently taking 6 hours for a 3 week sprint), Daily Scrum (as you
          >>> all know, 15 minutes), Sprint Review (time boxed to 1 hour), and
          >>> Retrospective (time boxed to 1 hour). Our sprints are 3 weeks long.
          >>>
          >>> Ideally all team members would be present for all four ceremonies (but
          >>> maybe that is not feasible...I don't know).
          >>>
          >>> Does anyone have suggestions / experiences on how they have dealt with
          >>> scheduling the Scrum ceremonies when the team is this far different in
          >>> time? Specifics would be helpful, if you don't mind sharing.
          >>>
          >>> (Yes, I know, make them co-located and solve my problems...that's an
          >>> organizational impediment that I cannot overcome right now...maybe in
          >>> the future...so I need to do the art of the possible for now.)
          >>>
          >>> Cheers,
          >>> Hank
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
          >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          >> scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
        • Mark Levison
          Sorry I was on vacation when this thread happened. I ve encountered this on a couple of occasions the solution we used: each team holds separate events
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 21, 2009
            Sorry I was on vacation when this thread happened. I've encountered this on a couple of occasions the solution we used: each team holds separate events (planning, review/retrospectives, daily scrum). One representative from the other location joins the team meetings via teleconference and webcam, they report back to their local team mates what happened in that meeting. The same happens in the other direction. Its far from perfect but in the end you have two partially independant teams that at least are working with their distant counterparts.

            I strongly prefer to have all team members at the all the events but that's not possible with this kind of a time difference.

            Cheers
            Mark
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