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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: taking meeting notes on Scrum of Scrums

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  • drc@outformations.com
    Oops... the link didn t make it... Using Whiteboard Meeting Notes http://www.outformations.com/blog/?p=16 -- David Chilcott Outformations, Inc.
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 19, 2009
    Oops... the link didn't make it... Using Whiteboard Meeting Notes

    http://www.outformations.com/blog/?p=16

    -- David Chilcott
    Outformations, Inc.
    drc@...
    510.655.7122 Voice

    Keep Breathing. Tell the Truth. Be Fearless. Choose Love. Embrace the
    Mystery.





    drc@outformations
    .com
    Sent by: To
    scrumdevelopment@ scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
    yahoogroups.com cc

    Subject
    06/19/2009 09:05 Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: taking
    PM meeting notes on Scrum of Scrums


    Please respond to
    scrumdevelopment@
    yahoogroups.com













    We do this too... Using Whiteboard Meeting Notes



    -- David Chilcott
    Outformations, Inc.
    drc@...
    510.655.7122 Voice

    Keep Breathing. Tell the Truth. Be Fearless. Choose Love. Embrace the
    Mystery.





    George Dinwiddie
    <lists@idiacomput
    ing.com> To
    Sent by: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
    scrumdevelopment@ cc
    yahoogroups.com
    Subject
    Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: taking
    06/19/2009 06:28 meeting notes on Scrum of Scrums
    PM


    Please respond to
    scrumdevelopment@
    yahoogroups.com






    Good points, Max.

    One approach to taking minutes would be to write the items on a
    whiteboard or flipchart, and then take a digital photo at the end. I
    use this means to record a lot of meeting notes.

    - George

    maxwell_keeler wrote:
    > Joel,
    >
    > Great question, I've been wondering the same thing myself. My take
    > is that taking and distributing notes at the SoS is not sustainable.
    > I liken attendance of the meeting to the agile prinicple of "working
    > software" and reading the minutes "documentation". I would try to
    > promote attendance.
    >
    > That said, if the organization is too large for that, minutes might
    > be the right thing to do. You would just want to: a) rotate that
    > reponsibility between participants b) don't make it a substitute for
    > attending
    >
    > Max
    >
    > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "joel.feldman"
    > <jfeldman@...> wrote:
    >> Our Scrum of Scrums Scrum Master has started taking notes and
    >> distributing to the attendees after each scrum.
    >>
    >> I know in general we try to keep scrum as ‘light weight’ as
    >> possible but this might be useful since so many team members can be
    >> affected by what other teams are doing. This can also be useful
    >> when some team members have accents which other team members may
    >> not be used to.
    >>
    >> I’d be curious if other people have similar practices in their
    >> Scrum of Scrums and what your experiences are.
    >>
    >> Assuming we continue with this, I am thinking about suggesting that
    >> instead of the scrum master taking notes, have round table
    >> participants enter their updates into a shared Google spreadsheet
    >> before each scrum (offloads scrum master, has team members have
    >> more ownership).

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
    Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
    Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
    ----------------------------------------------------------



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  • sepreece
    If you ve got a projector in the room, or everybody has a laptop anyway, entering the notes in real time into a wiki page can work well, especially if you have
    Message 2 of 11 , Jun 20, 2009
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      If you've got a projector in the room, or everybody has a laptop anyway, entering the notes in real time into a wiki page can work well, especially if you have a proficient note-taker (like most things, not everybody is good at it).

      scott

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, George Dinwiddie <lists@...> wrote:
      >
      > Good points, Max.
      >
      > One approach to taking minutes would be to write the items on a
      > whiteboard or flipchart, and then take a digital photo at the end. I
      > use this means to record a lot of meeting notes.
      >
      > - George
      >
      > maxwell_keeler wrote:
      > > Joel,
      > >
      > > Great question, I've been wondering the same thing myself. My take
      > > is that taking and distributing notes at the SoS is not sustainable.
      > > I liken attendance of the meeting to the agile prinicple of "working
      > > software" and reading the minutes "documentation". I would try to
      > > promote attendance.
      > >
      > > That said, if the organization is too large for that, minutes might
      > > be the right thing to do. You would just want to: a) rotate that
      > > reponsibility between participants b) don't make it a substitute for
      > > attending
      > >
      > > Max
      > >
      > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "joel.feldman"
      > > <jfeldman@> wrote:
      > >> Our Scrum of Scrums Scrum Master has started taking notes and
      > >> distributing to the attendees after each scrum.
      > >>
      > >> I know in general we try to keep scrum as ‘light weight’ as
      > >> possible but this might be useful since so many team members can be
      > >> affected by what other teams are doing. This can also be useful
      > >> when some team members have accents which other team members may
      > >> not be used to.
      > >>
      > >> I’d be curious if other people have similar practices in their
      > >> Scrum of Scrums and what your experiences are.
      > >>
      > >> Assuming we continue with this, I am thinking about suggesting that
      > >> instead of the scrum master taking notes, have round table
      > >> participants enter their updates into a shared Google spreadsheet
      > >> before each scrum (offloads scrum master, has team members have
      > >> more ownership).
      >
      > --
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
      > Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
      > Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
    • George Dinwiddie
      ... Scott, I disagree strongly with this. It would be much better to take no notes, but have everyone paying full attention. Multitasking like this is really
      Message 3 of 11 , Jun 20, 2009
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        sepreece wrote:
        > If you've got a projector in the room, or everybody has a laptop
        > anyway, entering the notes in real time into a wiki page can work
        > well, especially if you have a proficient note-taker (like most
        > things, not everybody is good at it).

        Scott, I disagree strongly with this. It would be much better to take
        no notes, but have everyone paying full attention. Multitasking like
        this is really insidious.

        - George

        --
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
        Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
        Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      • sepreece
        Well, that s why I said if everyone has a laptop *anyway* . I completely agree that you want people thinking together and not multitasking. Having people look
        Message 4 of 11 , Jun 20, 2009
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          Well, that's why I said "if everyone has a laptop *anyway*". I completely agree that you want people thinking together and not multitasking. Having people look at the notes on their laptops is preferable to having them read their e-mail on their laptops.

          I like having a projector (or other visible-to-all method) so people can complain if something doesn't get noted that they think should be.

          And, of course, "everybody" may include people who aren't in the same room at all.

          scott

          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, George Dinwiddie <lists@...> wrote:
          >
          > sepreece wrote:
          > > If you've got a projector in the room, or everybody has a laptop
          > > anyway, entering the notes in real time into a wiki page can work
          > > well, especially if you have a proficient note-taker (like most
          > > things, not everybody is good at it).
          >
          > Scott, I disagree strongly with this. It would be much better to take
          > no notes, but have everyone paying full attention. Multitasking like
          > this is really insidious.
          >
          > - George
          >
          > --
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          > * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
          > Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
          > Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
        • Ilja Preuß
          In our SoS, the attendees take notes for their teams, and use them when reporting back. After all, they should be in a better position to decide which
          Message 5 of 11 , Jun 22, 2009
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            In our SoS, the attendees take notes for their teams, and use them when reporting back. After all, they should be in a better position to decide which information is relevant for their team.

            The Scrum Master taking notes and distributing them sounds like a potential impediment to self-organization to me. I'd also fear that it takes away focus from his facilitation role.

            2009/6/18 joel.feldman <jfeldman@...>
             
            Assuming we continue with this, I am thinking about suggesting that instead of the scrum master taking notes, have round table participants enter their updates into a shared Google spreadsheet before each scrum (offloads scrum master, has team members have more ownership).

            Yes, the ownership issue feels very important to me. I'm sure there are a myriad of other solutions that do it, for example simply having one of the other attendees taking the notes and distributing them.

            Cheers, Ilja
          • Ilja Preuß
            2009/6/21 sepreece ... That s the beauty of a whiteboard - instead of just complaining, they can actually take responsibility for fixing
            Message 6 of 11 , Jun 22, 2009
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              2009/6/21 sepreece <sepreece@...>
              I like having a projector (or other visible-to-all method) so people can complain if something doesn't get noted that they think should be.

              That's the beauty of a whiteboard - instead of just complaining, they can actually take responsibility for fixing it directly.

              Cheers, Ilja
            • joel.feldman
              Thanks for everyone s input on this question. There was good variety of approaches to consider and try.
              Message 7 of 11 , Jun 24, 2009
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                Thanks for everyone's input on this question. There was good variety of approaches to consider and try.
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