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RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution

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  • Mike Cohn
    Mike- The differences you describe here are perfect. Somewhat to Mary s point about needing to trust managers, though, sometimes this isn t the manager s or
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 9, 2002
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      Mike—

      The differences you describe here are perfect.

       

      Somewhat to Mary’s point about needing to trust managers, though, sometimes this isn’t the manager’s or ScrumMaster’s fault. I am working with a team right now that is slowly becoming accustomed to Scrum but I think they’re so used to having tasks assigned to them they are uncomfortable when I don’t tell them what task is next. I probably go a little further than you and Ken describe in your book in helping the team figure out what moves into the Sprint Backlog but I don’t tell them at all what order in which to work on things. It’s taken a few months with this team to convince them that I am not “checking up” on them in daily scrums and that the main purpose of the meeting is to make commitments to each other and for me to find out about impediments. They are coming around but they are nervous about the additional control and responsibility that ends up on their shoulders.

       

      This team also had a hard time of buying into the full “the product must be shippable”. One way I’ve got them around that (almost completely now) is to introduce the idea of a “stabilization sprint”. This was just a sprint with no new coding but just a catching up on testing application. Not a good idea in some situations but in this one it made sense (this was a team of 4 people who were left after 80 of their coworkers were fired and they are continuing on with work started by the 84 person team—that’s the type of project that needs extra “stabilization”).

       

      --Mike

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
      Sent:
      Tuesday, July 09, 2002 2:50 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution

       


       
      What we mean in Scrum is:

            Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
            team, can help you

            Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
            your control so I can help you

            and

            Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
            work on next and see how we, the team, can help you
           
      instead of:

            I assign tasks to you every day

            you must tell me the issues you may have and
            solve them

            and

            you report to me every day

            (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)

      Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
      micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
      reporting,

       

    • Linda Rising
      Now that I m back from Ireland, I can add a little bodhran accompaniment ... http://www.ifccsa.org/bodhran.html
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 15, 2002
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        Now that I'm back from Ireland, I can add a little bodhran accompaniment
        :-)!

        http://www.ifccsa.org/bodhran.html



        Ken Schwaber wrote:

        >MIke,
        >Linda Rising is the bard and songstress of agile. I hope she takes these
        >from village to village so people understand better.
        >Ken
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
        >Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:50 AM
        >To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development
        >Revolution
        >
        >
        >
        >Mike:
        >
        >Well said:
        >
        > the intellectual baggage of _defined_ processes
        > carried over from previous lives, projects, related
        > experience, and education causes for most
        > metaphor-block and dysfunctional translation.
        > (What a challenge we have ahead of us!!!)
        >
        >That's why it is so important to have good mentors,
        >experienced Scrum masters, and experienced developers,
        >that understand, at least in a tacit way that there
        >is a _fundamental_ difference of Agile vs. Traditional
        >(defined) software development.
        >
        >Also, just like Ken said, I'll have to add these ones
        >to the next Gantt chart I see:
        >
        > Task 3: Have teams self-organize, 3 days
        > Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days
        >
        >:-) :-) ;-)
        >
        >And I'll eve add a few more:
        >
        > Task 5: Turn the Management pyramid upside down
        > Task 6: Adopt Agile Values
        >
        >More relevant to Scrum, and to continue the parody above,
        >I often see trained Team Leaders and Managers
        >walking into the Scrum meeting assigning tasks and
        >expecting direct reports like (to continue the parody):
        >
        > "Your _assigned_ task yesterday was to adopt the
        > Agile Values, were you able to do that?
        >
        > No?!!
        >
        > _You are having issues again_. _Report_
        > to me your any progress you are able to make
        > by tomorrow."
        >
        >They think that management _asigns_ tasks, that it
        >is developers who have issues to resolve, and that
        >developers should _report_ back to them in the morning.
        >
        >What we mean in Scrum is:
        >
        > Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
        > team, can help you
        >
        > Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
        > your control so I can help you
        >
        > and
        >
        > Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
        > work on next and see how we, the team, can help you
        >
        >instead of:
        >
        > I assign tasks to you every day
        >
        > you must tell me the issues you may have and
        > solve them
        >
        > and
        >
        > you report to me every day
        >
        > (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)
        >
        >Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
        >micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
        >reporting,
        >
        >- Mike
        >
        >
        >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
        >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        >scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
        >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • Peter McGowan
        Did you bring one back with you? If we ever meet up, we can play a reel or a jig and drink a pint together! Keep the wrist lose, Peter ... From: Linda
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 15, 2002
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          Did you bring one back with you? If we ever meet up, we can play a reel or
          a jig and drink a pint together!

          Keep the wrist lose,
          Peter


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Linda Rising" <risingl@...>
          To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:48 PM
          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution


          > Now that I'm back from Ireland, I can add a little bodhran accompaniment
          > :-)!
          >
          > http://www.ifccsa.org/bodhran.html
          >
          >
          >
          > Ken Schwaber wrote:
          >
          > >MIke,
          > >Linda Rising is the bard and songstress of agile. I hope she takes these
          > >from village to village so people understand better.
          > >Ken
          > >
          > >-----Original Message-----
          > >From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
          > >Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:50 AM
          > >To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development
          > >Revolution
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Mike:
          > >
          > >Well said:
          > >
          > > the intellectual baggage of _defined_ processes
          > > carried over from previous lives, projects, related
          > > experience, and education causes for most
          > > metaphor-block and dysfunctional translation.
          > > (What a challenge we have ahead of us!!!)
          > >
          > >That's why it is so important to have good mentors,
          > >experienced Scrum masters, and experienced developers,
          > >that understand, at least in a tacit way that there
          > >is a _fundamental_ difference of Agile vs. Traditional
          > >(defined) software development.
          > >
          > >Also, just like Ken said, I'll have to add these ones
          > >to the next Gantt chart I see:
          > >
          > > Task 3: Have teams self-organize, 3 days
          > > Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days
          > >
          > >:-) :-) ;-)
          > >
          > >And I'll eve add a few more:
          > >
          > > Task 5: Turn the Management pyramid upside down
          > > Task 6: Adopt Agile Values
          > >
          > >More relevant to Scrum, and to continue the parody above,
          > >I often see trained Team Leaders and Managers
          > >walking into the Scrum meeting assigning tasks and
          > >expecting direct reports like (to continue the parody):
          > >
          > > "Your _assigned_ task yesterday was to adopt the
          > > Agile Values, were you able to do that?
          > >
          > > No?!!
          > >
          > > _You are having issues again_. _Report_
          > > to me your any progress you are able to make
          > > by tomorrow."
          > >
          > >They think that management _asigns_ tasks, that it
          > >is developers who have issues to resolve, and that
          > >developers should _report_ back to them in the morning.
          > >
          > >What we mean in Scrum is:
          > >
          > > Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
          > > team, can help you
          > >
          > > Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
          > > your control so I can help you
          > >
          > > and
          > >
          > > Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
          > > work on next and see how we, the team, can help you
          > >
          > >instead of:
          > >
          > > I assign tasks to you every day
          > >
          > > you must tell me the issues you may have and
          > > solve them
          > >
          > > and
          > >
          > > you report to me every day
          > >
          > > (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)
          > >
          > >Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
          > >micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
          > >reporting,
          > >
          > >- Mike
          > >
          > >
          > >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
          > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          > >scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
          > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • Linda Rising
          I had one before I went -- and a tin whistle -- but I got to see lots of players at the Willy Clancy festival -- now I have to find some local set dancers :-)!
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 15, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            I had one before I went -- and a tin whistle -- but I got to see lots of players at the Willy
            Clancy festival -- now I have to find some local set dancers :-)!




            Peter McGowan wrote:
            Did you bring one back with you?  If we ever meet up, we can play a reel or
            a jig and drink a pint together!

            Keep the wrist lose,
            Peter


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Linda Rising" <risingl@...>
            To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:48 PM
            Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution


            Now that I'm back from Ireland, I can add a little bodhran accompaniment
            :-)!

            http://www.ifccsa.org/bodhran.html



            Ken Schwaber wrote:

            MIke,
            Linda Rising is the bard and songstress of agile. I hope she takes these
            >from village to village so people understand better.
            Ken

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:50 AM
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development
            Revolution



            Mike:

            Well said:

            the intellectual baggage of _defined_ processes
            carried over from previous lives, projects, related
            experience, and education causes for most
            metaphor-block and dysfunctional translation.
            (What a challenge we have ahead of us!!!)

            That's why it is so important to have good mentors,
            experienced Scrum masters, and experienced developers,
            that understand, at least in a tacit way that there
            is a _fundamental_ difference of Agile vs. Traditional
            (defined) software development.

            Also, just like Ken said, I'll have to add these ones
            to the next Gantt chart I see:

            Task 3: Have teams self-organize, 3 days
            Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days

            :-) :-) ;-)

            And I'll eve add a few more:

            Task 5: Turn the Management pyramid upside down
            Task 6: Adopt Agile Values

            More relevant to Scrum, and to continue the parody above,
            I often see trained Team Leaders and Managers
            walking into the Scrum meeting assigning tasks and
            expecting direct reports like (to continue the parody):

            "Your _assigned_ task yesterday was to adopt the
            Agile Values, were you able to do that?

            No?!!

            _You are having issues again_. _Report_
            to me your any progress you are able to make
            by tomorrow."

            They think that management _asigns_ tasks, that it
            is developers who have issues to resolve, and that
            developers should _report_ back to them in the morning.

            What we mean in Scrum is:

            Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
            team, can help you

            Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
            your control so I can help you

            and

            Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
            work on next and see how we, the team, can help you

            instead of:

            I assign tasks to you every day

            you must tell me the issues you may have and
            solve them

            and

            you report to me every day

            (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)

            Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
            micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
            reporting,

            - Mike


            To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
            To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




            To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
            To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






            To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
            To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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          • Ken Schwaber
            Neat!! ... From: Linda Rising [mailto:risingl@acm.org] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:48 PM To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment]
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 17, 2002
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              Neat!!

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Linda Rising [mailto:risingl@...]
              Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:48 PM
              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development
              Revolution


              Now that I'm back from Ireland, I can add a little bodhran accompaniment
              :-)!

              http://www.ifccsa.org/bodhran.html



              Ken Schwaber wrote:

              >MIke,
              >Linda Rising is the bard and songstress of agile. I hope she takes these
              >from village to village so people understand better.
              >Ken
              >
              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
              >Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:50 AM
              >To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development
              >Revolution
              >
              >
              >
              >Mike:
              >
              >Well said:
              >
              > the intellectual baggage of _defined_ processes
              > carried over from previous lives, projects, related
              > experience, and education causes for most
              > metaphor-block and dysfunctional translation.
              > (What a challenge we have ahead of us!!!)
              >
              >That's why it is so important to have good mentors,
              >experienced Scrum masters, and experienced developers,
              >that understand, at least in a tacit way that there
              >is a _fundamental_ difference of Agile vs. Traditional
              >(defined) software development.
              >
              >Also, just like Ken said, I'll have to add these ones
              >to the next Gantt chart I see:
              >
              > Task 3: Have teams self-organize, 3 days
              > Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days
              >
              >:-) :-) ;-)
              >
              >And I'll eve add a few more:
              >
              > Task 5: Turn the Management pyramid upside down
              > Task 6: Adopt Agile Values
              >
              >More relevant to Scrum, and to continue the parody above,
              >I often see trained Team Leaders and Managers
              >walking into the Scrum meeting assigning tasks and
              >expecting direct reports like (to continue the parody):
              >
              > "Your _assigned_ task yesterday was to adopt the
              > Agile Values, were you able to do that?
              >
              > No?!!
              >
              > _You are having issues again_. _Report_
              > to me your any progress you are able to make
              > by tomorrow."
              >
              >They think that management _asigns_ tasks, that it
              >is developers who have issues to resolve, and that
              >developers should _report_ back to them in the morning.
              >
              >What we mean in Scrum is:
              >
              > Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
              > team, can help you
              >
              > Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
              > your control so I can help you
              >
              > and
              >
              > Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
              > work on next and see how we, the team, can help you
              >
              >instead of:
              >
              > I assign tasks to you every day
              >
              > you must tell me the issues you may have and
              > solve them
              >
              > and
              >
              > you report to me every day
              >
              > (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)
              >
              >Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
              >micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
              >reporting,
              >
              >- Mike
              >
              >
              >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
              >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              >scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
              >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >




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