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RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution

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  • Mike Cohn
    You re right. I was shocked to Boehm speaking at XPUniverse but I ll be anxious to hear what he has to say. The Spiral Model definitely was a major
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 8, 2002
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      You’re right. I was shocked to Boehm speaking at XPUniverse but I’ll be anxious to hear what he has to say. The Spiral Model definitely was a major contribution and helped lead to agile in some ways but it isn’t an agile process in itself. Some of Boehm’s Win-Win and later stuff is similarly interesting reading but seems to miss some key points of agility.

       

      On the RUP subject I did like Jim Highsmith’s point (in his Ecosystems book) that he thought RUP probably started out to be more agile (or probably just “more lightweight” which definitely isn’t the same thing) than it ended up. For example, Booch’s “Object Solutions” book was very good and has relevant advice in it about how to build systems. To be honest, I couldn’t even finish the RUP book by Jacobsen [Booch and Rumbaugh]. I stack those two books together and can’t help but think that RUP was more Jacobsen and Objectory than anything else.

       

      Mike

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
      Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 11:03 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution

       

      Mike,

      I'll have to remember these two tasks (3 and 4) for my next project. What a parody!

       

      Barry Boehm and a lot of other respected people like him are the worst thing that could happen to agile. They don't get it; they think agile is a task3, task4 thing that is really "lightweight", but not something radically new. They are part of the problem, not part of the solution. And it seems that the more we work with them, the more we lose our focus and they redefine agile into "just a small change." It must feel like this when a religion gets institutionalized into a church, with all of the rituals and power structures.

       

      Ken

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
      Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 11:00 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution

      A huge problem results from software developers (and certainly development managers) having been trained over the past 20 years or so to want to write down a list of meta-tasks that must be performed on every project. With agile processes there just isn’t as much to write down—we see this in the size of Ken’s and Mike’s wonderful Scrum book and in the XP series. There are probably fewer words in all those books than in The Unified Software Development Process book. And even at that each of the XP books after the first two added very little. RUP does take 500 dense pages to describe, though.

       

      In organizations filled with people who have been trained to write down their methodologies they look to write down the steps of an agile process—and on the surface that doesn’t seem so evil but it just completely misses the point. I envision organizations with Gantt charts with items like:

       

      Task 3: Have team self-organize, 3 days

      Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days

       

      I remember when I first read the Rational article on how RUP could really be XP (http://www.rational.com/media/products/rup/tp183.pdf). I thought it was a joke at first. First, how could any “unified process” be agile? Agile processes have to be ones that adapt to the organizations using them. RUP will always feel like RUP even with some activities removed. The thing that really scared about RUP = XP was that Bob Martin seemed to be endorsing it with his dX process: http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articles/RUPvsXP.pdf. At least with his paper I couldn’t be sure if he was truly endorsing that as a way to proceed or if he’d written the paper as a thought experiment to see if it really was possible “ to do XP within RUP.”

       

      I remember almost two years ago joking with Ward Cunningham that I was going to come out with an “Extreme Management” methodology which would be centered around the belief that “pair managing” was appropriate and that I would assign two managers to sit at the keyboard with each programmer. Now of course there is something called “Extreme Project Management” from Rob Thomsett (http://www.cutter.com/freestuff/epmr0102.html). I go back and forth on whether this is agile or not—the article appears to be pro-agile (except for odd comments like (XPM Rule 2: The less the project manager knows about the technical issues of the project, the better, which completely scares me!) but his book seems far less so (admittedly I’ve not yet finished reading it).

       

      We’ve also got things like Feature-Driven Development from Togethersoft that appear (to me at least) to be masquerading as agile. I don’t see anything in FDD that is agile—unless you consider delivering software within 4 month sprints agile.

       

      I’ve had the feeling for a few months that while momentum continues in favor of agile methodologies those supplying the momentum are of the “we’re already doing that” variety mentioned in Ken’s XP2002 speech earlier in this thread.

       

      We somehow have to keep at the forefront of the discussion of agile methods that these approaches are revolutionary and that they are not just a different set of tasks to be performed.

       

      --Mike

       

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
      Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 7:38 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution

       


      Ken:

      What a joy to read your XP 2002 speech.  I wish I would have been there.
      It is certainly inspiring, provocative and gets the point across:

             Agile is certainly different and revolutionary

      and your speech explains why -- that's important.  (I beg you to
      offer your Speech as a download from your website, and to publish it,
      or a variation of it, in Software Development magazine, or a
      similar widely read publication.)

      You should find interesting that what provoked me to write my note to
      Extreme Programming, was a similar feeling of dissatisfaction with the
      several discussions I was holding and hearing at the time at
      the list that orbited around 1) comparing agile processes with
      traditional processes, 2)  exploratory metaphors to explain
      agile processes, and 3) about techniques from other domains to improve
      and explain agile processes.

      All of these discussions are interesting and productive but somehow
      managed to leave out what I consider they _key differences_
      of agility.

      Superficially, everything that glitters can be confused with
      precious stones.  But we get to know as we understand more,
      that there is a difference between zirconias and diamonds i.e.
      between the "real" thing and something that superficially '
      looks like it.

      At times, I often feel that's were we are as a community --
      there is not enough understanding as to why agile is a diamond.

      Clearly statements like:

            XP can be an instance of RUP

      ignore the latent, seldom-unspoken but _fundamental_
      nature of agile processes,

      - Mike



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
      Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 7:55 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution


      Mike,
      I congratulate your focus. We are in danger of this being thought and
      whittled to death. Like the movie, "Death by a Thousand Blows." I had a
      similar feeling at XP2002, which caused my to get up in a rather testy mood
      and give the attached speech to the attendees.
      Ken

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
      Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 7:16 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution



      (I know most of the people subscribed to this list belong to
      the Extreme Programming mailing list, but just in case some
      of you missed this posting at the Extreme mailing list.....
      here it is.  My apologies included if you have received multiple
      copies of this message.)

      Dear agileers,

      It troubles me that the _fundamental differences_  between
      traditional and agile processes are not highlighted,
      either by, we, the creators and supporters of the Agile movement,
      or by traditional software development figure-heads.

      Because if we don't highlight the differences of why Agile
      Software Development processes we run the danger of hearing
      and, worse, accepting that:

            there is nothing really all that new with
            Agile Software Development processes

      This will relinquish Agile Software Development as "one"
      of many other compatible worldviews, and soon Agility will be
      muddled into oblivion.

      Don't take me wrong, I admire and respect the contributions
      of people like Humphrey, Paulk, Parnas, Boehm, Constantine,
      Booch, Jacobson, Gilb, Jackson, Yourdon, etc.; but I think in our
      desperate effort to make sense of Agility, we will find
      that many important concepts are forgotten if we try to equate them
      with their traditional software development counterparts.  And that
      misconceptions and misunderstandings will be created like:

            The CMM is compatible with agile processes, or
            XP can be an instance of RUP

      In my opinion, there are radical and fundamental _differences_
      that make Agile Software Development Processes and Traditional Software
      Development Processes two very different ways of developing software
      from the perspective of the nature of their underlying processes:

            Traditional Software Development Processes advocate and
            eventually prescribe a _defined_ and _repeatable software
            engineering process, as well as many other _defined_ and
            _repeatable_ processes that correspond to different
            "process areas".  And they are based on the erroneous belief,
            in my opinion, that software can be "manufactured".

      But,

            Agile Software Development Processes, on the other hand,
            use inspection/adaptation feedback cycles that "generate"
            a process by people that self-organize based on the
            application of a set of practices, or patterns really,
            that in an Alexandrian way lead to the emergence of
            an organization and a process.  This is stated directly
            in the Agile Principles:

            "The best architectures, requirements, and designs
            emerge from self-organizing teams."
            http://www.agilemanifesto.org/principles.html

            Therefore Agile Software Development Process more
            closely resembles a New Product development process
            like the one described in:

            [NonakaTakeuchi] Takeuchi H. and Nonaka I., The New New Product
            Development Game, Harvard Business Review (January 1986),
            pp. 137-146, 1986.

      In my opinion, this is an important, radical and fundamental
      _difference_, that subtly changes the underlying assumptions
      of why and how things work in a software development process.

      How does this difference affects the people that work on an
      Agile Software Development Process?

      It is this feature of Agility that brings out these essential
      characteristics in an Agile Software Development Process:


            1) Greater Liberty and Freedom

            People in an Agile Software project feel more liberated
            because they feel _free_ to do whatever it takes
            to achieve their goal:

                  talk to the customer, think, imagine, code, test, refactor,

            in any order, as many times as they need/want, and as often as
            they need to.


            2) Required Learning, Knowledge Creation and Knowledge Sharing

            People in an Agile Software project are constantly learning,
            and sharing knowledge because by definition Agility is
            based on continuous short feedback cycles of:

                  inspection --> adaptation

            where we learn from the customers, from other team members,
            from practitioners in the field, and even from ourselves
            on a daily basis.


            3) A More Enjoyable and Humane Work Environment

            People in an Agile Software project participate in a more
            human "fun-like" way because the more human and intellectual
            activities of research, understanding, imagination,
            creativity, cooperation and sharing are encouraged and required;
            as opposed to being considered just "another station in
            a production line".


            4) A Hyper-productive Cooperative Work Mode

            People in an Agile Software project work in teams that
            exhibit a mode of cooperation that leads to hyper-productivity --
            the dynamic pull-system way that Nonaka and Takeuchi describe in the
            Knowledge Creating Company as the "hypertext" organization.

            This mode of cooperation, taps into the collective
            intelligence and collective knowledge and memory stored
            in the distributed mind of the team and the organization
            as a whole.


            5) The Quality of Life

            Agile Software projects work under the assumption and
            expectation that "emergent" behavior is the only way to
            confront uncertainty.  Agile Software projects openly
            accept that it is impossible to:

                  outline what tasks are going to be needed
                  to complete a software project up-front, and

                  get all the requirements up-front, and/or
                  design an architecture up-front.

            Rather, the plan, the requirements and the architecture
            of the project, gradually emerge, by constant feedback cycles,
            research and creativity, and constant interaction among
            the participants of the project and the customer.

            This is what gives Agile Software Development teams
            the distinctive feature of "ordered chaos" that
            Life itself uses to accomplish its miraculous chores.

            And therefore, this is what literally makes teams
            more "alive", because teams more closely resemble
            living systems like ant or bee colonies,
            brains, or rugby/soccer/football teams.

            etc.

      For these reasons, which are not all, I hereby declare the
      beginning of a new era in software development, and I therefore
      proclaim officially that the creation of the Agile Manifesto:

            http://www.agilemanifesto.org/

      and its principles:

            http://www.agilemanifesto.org/principles.html

      mark unequivocally the beginning of the:

            Agile Software Development Revolution

      which was created, sponsored and supported by all of
      you brave souls that dared the world by practicing and
      advocating a _new_ Agile way, that makes software development
      different, more productive, more humane and therefore
      clearly better, in my opinion.

      Don't find yourself muddled out by figure-heads ... stay Agile!

      - Mike

      http://www.agilescrum.com
      http://www.xbreed.net


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    • Mike Beedle
      Mike: Well said: the intellectual baggage of _defined_ processes carried over from previous lives, projects, related experience, and education causes for most
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 9, 2002
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        Mike:

        Well said:

        the intellectual baggage of _defined_ processes
        carried over from previous lives, projects, related
        experience, and education causes for most
        metaphor-block and dysfunctional translation.
        (What a challenge we have ahead of us!!!)

        That's why it is so important to have good mentors,
        experienced Scrum masters, and experienced developers,
        that understand, at least in a tacit way that there
        is a _fundamental_ difference of Agile vs. Traditional
        (defined) software development.

        Also, just like Ken said, I'll have to add these ones
        to the next Gantt chart I see:

        Task 3: Have teams self-organize, 3 days
        Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days

        :-) :-) ;-)

        And I'll eve add a few more:

        Task 5: Turn the Management pyramid upside down
        Task 6: Adopt Agile Values

        More relevant to Scrum, and to continue the parody above,
        I often see trained Team Leaders and Managers
        walking into the Scrum meeting assigning tasks and
        expecting direct reports like (to continue the parody):

        "Your _assigned_ task yesterday was to adopt the
        Agile Values, were you able to do that?

        No?!!

        _You are having issues again_. _Report_
        to me your any progress you are able to make
        by tomorrow."

        They think that management _asigns_ tasks, that it
        is developers who have issues to resolve, and that
        developers should _report_ back to them in the morning.

        What we mean in Scrum is:

        Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
        team, can help you

        Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
        your control so I can help you

        and

        Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
        work on next and see how we, the team, can help you

        instead of:

        I assign tasks to you every day

        you must tell me the issues you may have and
        solve them

        and

        you report to me every day

        (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)

        Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
        micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
        reporting,

        - Mike
      • Jonas Bengtsson
        Mike, Mike, Everybody: I like these. Can t someone put together a nice article that describe these, and similar, in length? As an anti-pattern (of course :-) )
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 9, 2002
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          Mike, Mike, Everybody:

          I like these. Can't someone put together a nice article that describe these,
          and similar, in length? As an anti-pattern (of course :-) ) for adaption of
          agile. I think it's a good way to describe how agile is different.

          Regards,
          Jonas

          > Task 3: Have teams self-organize, 3 days
          > Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days
          > Task 5: Turn the Management pyramid upside down
          > Task 6: Adopt Agile Values
        • Mike Beedle
          ... Ken: I didn t have the courage to put it quite on these words, but yes, I wholeheartedly agree. If people hear believable misconceptions, half truths, or
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 9, 2002
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            Ken wrote:
            > Barry Boehm and a lot of other respected people like
            > him are the worst thing that could happen to agile.
            > They don't get it; they think agile is a task3, task4
            > thing that is really "lightweight", but not something
            > radically new. They are part of the problem, not
            > part of the solution. And it seems that the more we
            > work with them, the more we lose our focus and
            > they redefine agile into "just a small change."

            Ken:

            I didn't have the courage to put it quite on these words,
            but yes, I wholeheartedly agree. If people hear believable
            misconceptions, half truths, or just plain ole illed advice
            from figure heads like:

            * XP can be an instance or RUP

            * Agile processes are _defined_ ETVX processes and
            are CMM compatible

            * Agile processes are just lightweight processes

            * We've done _all_ of this for the last 30 years

            etc.

            Agile will be reduced to whatever else they want and it
            to be, and the agile concept will be so muddled and garbled
            that it will be hard to tell, specially for new comers,
            what Software Agility really is or is not.

            An old quote comes to mind, in 1982, Tim Rentsch said:

            " ...object oriented programming will be in the 1980's
            what structured programming was in the 1970's. Everyone
            will be in favor of it. Every manufacturer will promote
            his products as supporting it. Every manager will pay
            lip service to it. Every programmer will practice it
            (differently). And no one will know just what it is."

            [Rentsch82]
            Nguyen, Van and Hailpern, Brent "A Generalized Object Model",
            ACM SIGPLAN NOTICES, v17, n9 Ed: G. Richard Wexelblat,
            September 1982

            So let me translate it to the agile software development:

            " ...Agile Software Development will be in the 2000's
            what Defined-Process Software Development was in the 1980's.
            Everyone will be in favor of it. Every manufacturer will promote
            his products as supporting it. Every manager will pay
            lip service to it. Every programmer will practice it
            (differently). And no one will know just what it is."

            The scary part is that Rentsch's observations were valid
            also in the 1990's, so if history repeats itself, we are
            talking about an absorption rate of 20-30 years or so,

            - Mike
          • Ken Schwaber
            MIke, Linda Rising is the bard and songstress of agile. I hope she takes these from village to village so people understand better. Ken ... From: Mike Beedle
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 9, 2002
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              MIke,
              Linda Rising is the bard and songstress of agile. I hope she takes these
              from village to village so people understand better.
              Ken

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:50 AM
              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development
              Revolution



              Mike:

              Well said:

              the intellectual baggage of _defined_ processes
              carried over from previous lives, projects, related
              experience, and education causes for most
              metaphor-block and dysfunctional translation.
              (What a challenge we have ahead of us!!!)

              That's why it is so important to have good mentors,
              experienced Scrum masters, and experienced developers,
              that understand, at least in a tacit way that there
              is a _fundamental_ difference of Agile vs. Traditional
              (defined) software development.

              Also, just like Ken said, I'll have to add these ones
              to the next Gantt chart I see:

              Task 3: Have teams self-organize, 3 days
              Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days

              :-) :-) ;-)

              And I'll eve add a few more:

              Task 5: Turn the Management pyramid upside down
              Task 6: Adopt Agile Values

              More relevant to Scrum, and to continue the parody above,
              I often see trained Team Leaders and Managers
              walking into the Scrum meeting assigning tasks and
              expecting direct reports like (to continue the parody):

              "Your _assigned_ task yesterday was to adopt the
              Agile Values, were you able to do that?

              No?!!

              _You are having issues again_. _Report_
              to me your any progress you are able to make
              by tomorrow."

              They think that management _asigns_ tasks, that it
              is developers who have issues to resolve, and that
              developers should _report_ back to them in the morning.

              What we mean in Scrum is:

              Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
              team, can help you

              Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
              your control so I can help you

              and

              Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
              work on next and see how we, the team, can help you

              instead of:

              I assign tasks to you every day

              you must tell me the issues you may have and
              solve them

              and

              you report to me every day

              (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)

              Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
              micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
              reporting,

              - Mike


              To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • mpoppendieck
              I have a couple of observations. Observation 1: Every movement I know of – Just-in-Time, Quality, Lean Manufacturing, Theory of Constraints, you name it –
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 9, 2002
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                I have a couple of observations.

                Observation 1:

                Every movement I know of – Just-in-Time, Quality, Lean
                Manufacturing, Theory of Constraints, you name it – has been
                misunderstood and misapplied by people who size on a piece of the
                message. People looking for a formula or sliver bullet always
                seem to miss the fundamentals. At the core, every one of these
                movements focuses on team empowerment, providing customer value, and
                moving from a parochial to a holistic view of the system. In every
                case, these `movements' emphasize that the manager must act
                as a coach, provide training, and help the team understand and
                achieve overall business value.

                If these very worthy paradigm shifts are mis-applied more often than
                used correctly, why would we think that agile development would be
                immune from the same fate?

                Observation 2:

                I worry about stereotyping managers as people who assign tasks and
                check that they are done. I know many managers who understand their
                role to be coaching, training, supporting, and providing a valuable
                business mission to an empowered team. Okay, so most of them are in
                operations or product development, but that just goes to show the
                JIT/TQM/Lean/TOC movements have had some positive impact.

                We can't influence people who feel we do not respect them.

                Mary Poppendieck
                www.LeanProgramming.com
              • Mike Cohn
                You re right, Mike! I ve heard that quote before and it is totally appropriate in this case as well. It already seems like agile has become the decade s new
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 9, 2002
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                  You’re right, Mike!

                  I’ve heard that quote before and it is totally appropriate in this case as well.

                  It already seems like “agile” has become the decade’s new buzzword.

                   

                  I guess the worthwhile innovations have weathered their buzzword periods—certainly OO surpassed buzzword status. Hopefully agile does the same.

                   

                  Even someone who dumps RUP for “lighter RUP” or some of the less-agile of the agile methods (e.g., FDD) is taking a step in the right direction. If people convert to those types of methodologies for a few years they may then be more willing to hear the true gospel of agile and go all the way—that would certainly fit with your comment that we may be facing a 20-30 year absorption.

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:01 AM
                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution

                   


                  Ken wrote:
                  > Barry Boehm and a lot of other respected people like
                  > him are the worst thing that could happen to agile.
                  > They don't get it; they think agile is a task3, task4
                  > thing that is really "lightweight", but not something
                  > radically new. They are part of the problem, not
                  > part of the solution. And it seems that the more we
                  > work with them, the more we lose our focus and
                  > they redefine agile into "just a small change."

                  Ken:

                  I didn't have the courage to put it quite on these words,
                  but yes, I wholeheartedly agree.  If people hear believable
                  misconceptions, half truths, or just plain ole illed advice
                  from figure heads like:

                        * XP can be an instance or RUP

                        * Agile processes are _defined_ ETVX processes and
                        are CMM compatible

                        * Agile processes are just lightweight processes

                        * We've done _all_ of this for the last 30 years

                        etc.

                  Agile will be reduced to whatever else they want and it
                  to be, and the agile concept will be so muddled and garbled
                  that it will be hard to tell, specially for new comers,
                  what Software Agility really is or is not.

                  An old quote comes to mind, in 1982, Tim Rentsch said:

                  " ...object oriented programming will be in the 1980's
                  what structured programming was in the 1970's. Everyone
                  will be in favor of it. Every manufacturer will promote
                  his products as supporting it. Every manager will pay
                  lip service to it. Every programmer will practice it
                  (differently). And no one will know just what it is."

                  [Rentsch82]
                  Nguyen, Van and Hailpern, Brent "A Generalized Object Model",
                  ACM SIGPLAN NOTICES, v17, n9 Ed: G. Richard Wexelblat,
                  September 1982

                  So let me translate it to the agile software development:

                  " ...Agile Software Development will be in the 2000's
                  what Defined-Process Software Development was in the 1980's.
                  Everyone will be in favor of it. Every manufacturer will promote
                  his products as supporting it. Every manager will pay
                  lip service to it. Every programmer will practice it
                  (differently). And no one will know just what it is."

                  The scary part is that Rentsch's observations were valid
                  also in the 1990's, so if history repeats itself, we are
                  talking about an absorption rate of 20-30 years or so,

                  - Mike
                   

                • Mike Cohn
                  Mike- The differences you describe here are perfect. Somewhat to Mary s point about needing to trust managers, though, sometimes this isn t the manager s or
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 9, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Mike—

                    The differences you describe here are perfect.

                     

                    Somewhat to Mary’s point about needing to trust managers, though, sometimes this isn’t the manager’s or ScrumMaster’s fault. I am working with a team right now that is slowly becoming accustomed to Scrum but I think they’re so used to having tasks assigned to them they are uncomfortable when I don’t tell them what task is next. I probably go a little further than you and Ken describe in your book in helping the team figure out what moves into the Sprint Backlog but I don’t tell them at all what order in which to work on things. It’s taken a few months with this team to convince them that I am not “checking up” on them in daily scrums and that the main purpose of the meeting is to make commitments to each other and for me to find out about impediments. They are coming around but they are nervous about the additional control and responsibility that ends up on their shoulders.

                     

                    This team also had a hard time of buying into the full “the product must be shippable”. One way I’ve got them around that (almost completely now) is to introduce the idea of a “stabilization sprint”. This was just a sprint with no new coding but just a catching up on testing application. Not a good idea in some situations but in this one it made sense (this was a team of 4 people who were left after 80 of their coworkers were fired and they are continuing on with work started by the 84 person team—that’s the type of project that needs extra “stabilization”).

                     

                    --Mike

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
                    Sent:
                    Tuesday, July 09, 2002 2:50 AM
                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution

                     


                     
                    What we mean in Scrum is:

                          Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
                          team, can help you

                          Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
                          your control so I can help you

                          and

                          Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
                          work on next and see how we, the team, can help you
                         
                    instead of:

                          I assign tasks to you every day

                          you must tell me the issues you may have and
                          solve them

                          and

                          you report to me every day

                          (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)

                    Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
                    micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
                    reporting,

                     

                  • Linda Rising
                    Now that I m back from Ireland, I can add a little bodhran accompaniment ... http://www.ifccsa.org/bodhran.html
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 15, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Now that I'm back from Ireland, I can add a little bodhran accompaniment
                      :-)!

                      http://www.ifccsa.org/bodhran.html



                      Ken Schwaber wrote:

                      >MIke,
                      >Linda Rising is the bard and songstress of agile. I hope she takes these
                      >from village to village so people understand better.
                      >Ken
                      >
                      >-----Original Message-----
                      >From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
                      >Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:50 AM
                      >To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development
                      >Revolution
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Mike:
                      >
                      >Well said:
                      >
                      > the intellectual baggage of _defined_ processes
                      > carried over from previous lives, projects, related
                      > experience, and education causes for most
                      > metaphor-block and dysfunctional translation.
                      > (What a challenge we have ahead of us!!!)
                      >
                      >That's why it is so important to have good mentors,
                      >experienced Scrum masters, and experienced developers,
                      >that understand, at least in a tacit way that there
                      >is a _fundamental_ difference of Agile vs. Traditional
                      >(defined) software development.
                      >
                      >Also, just like Ken said, I'll have to add these ones
                      >to the next Gantt chart I see:
                      >
                      > Task 3: Have teams self-organize, 3 days
                      > Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days
                      >
                      >:-) :-) ;-)
                      >
                      >And I'll eve add a few more:
                      >
                      > Task 5: Turn the Management pyramid upside down
                      > Task 6: Adopt Agile Values
                      >
                      >More relevant to Scrum, and to continue the parody above,
                      >I often see trained Team Leaders and Managers
                      >walking into the Scrum meeting assigning tasks and
                      >expecting direct reports like (to continue the parody):
                      >
                      > "Your _assigned_ task yesterday was to adopt the
                      > Agile Values, were you able to do that?
                      >
                      > No?!!
                      >
                      > _You are having issues again_. _Report_
                      > to me your any progress you are able to make
                      > by tomorrow."
                      >
                      >They think that management _asigns_ tasks, that it
                      >is developers who have issues to resolve, and that
                      >developers should _report_ back to them in the morning.
                      >
                      >What we mean in Scrum is:
                      >
                      > Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
                      > team, can help you
                      >
                      > Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
                      > your control so I can help you
                      >
                      > and
                      >
                      > Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
                      > work on next and see how we, the team, can help you
                      >
                      >instead of:
                      >
                      > I assign tasks to you every day
                      >
                      > you must tell me the issues you may have and
                      > solve them
                      >
                      > and
                      >
                      > you report to me every day
                      >
                      > (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)
                      >
                      >Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
                      >micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
                      >reporting,
                      >
                      >- Mike
                      >
                      >
                      >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                      >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      >scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                      >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Peter McGowan
                      Did you bring one back with you? If we ever meet up, we can play a reel or a jig and drink a pint together! Keep the wrist lose, Peter ... From: Linda
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 15, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Did you bring one back with you? If we ever meet up, we can play a reel or
                        a jig and drink a pint together!

                        Keep the wrist lose,
                        Peter


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Linda Rising" <risingl@...>
                        To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:48 PM
                        Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution


                        > Now that I'm back from Ireland, I can add a little bodhran accompaniment
                        > :-)!
                        >
                        > http://www.ifccsa.org/bodhran.html
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Ken Schwaber wrote:
                        >
                        > >MIke,
                        > >Linda Rising is the bard and songstress of agile. I hope she takes these
                        > >from village to village so people understand better.
                        > >Ken
                        > >
                        > >-----Original Message-----
                        > >From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
                        > >Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:50 AM
                        > >To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        > >Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development
                        > >Revolution
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >Mike:
                        > >
                        > >Well said:
                        > >
                        > > the intellectual baggage of _defined_ processes
                        > > carried over from previous lives, projects, related
                        > > experience, and education causes for most
                        > > metaphor-block and dysfunctional translation.
                        > > (What a challenge we have ahead of us!!!)
                        > >
                        > >That's why it is so important to have good mentors,
                        > >experienced Scrum masters, and experienced developers,
                        > >that understand, at least in a tacit way that there
                        > >is a _fundamental_ difference of Agile vs. Traditional
                        > >(defined) software development.
                        > >
                        > >Also, just like Ken said, I'll have to add these ones
                        > >to the next Gantt chart I see:
                        > >
                        > > Task 3: Have teams self-organize, 3 days
                        > > Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days
                        > >
                        > >:-) :-) ;-)
                        > >
                        > >And I'll eve add a few more:
                        > >
                        > > Task 5: Turn the Management pyramid upside down
                        > > Task 6: Adopt Agile Values
                        > >
                        > >More relevant to Scrum, and to continue the parody above,
                        > >I often see trained Team Leaders and Managers
                        > >walking into the Scrum meeting assigning tasks and
                        > >expecting direct reports like (to continue the parody):
                        > >
                        > > "Your _assigned_ task yesterday was to adopt the
                        > > Agile Values, were you able to do that?
                        > >
                        > > No?!!
                        > >
                        > > _You are having issues again_. _Report_
                        > > to me your any progress you are able to make
                        > > by tomorrow."
                        > >
                        > >They think that management _asigns_ tasks, that it
                        > >is developers who have issues to resolve, and that
                        > >developers should _report_ back to them in the morning.
                        > >
                        > >What we mean in Scrum is:
                        > >
                        > > Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
                        > > team, can help you
                        > >
                        > > Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
                        > > your control so I can help you
                        > >
                        > > and
                        > >
                        > > Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
                        > > work on next and see how we, the team, can help you
                        > >
                        > >instead of:
                        > >
                        > > I assign tasks to you every day
                        > >
                        > > you must tell me the issues you may have and
                        > > solve them
                        > >
                        > > and
                        > >
                        > > you report to me every day
                        > >
                        > > (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)
                        > >
                        > >Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
                        > >micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
                        > >reporting,
                        > >
                        > >- Mike
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                        > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                        > >scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                        > >
                        > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                        > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                        scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                        > >
                        > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                        scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      • Linda Rising
                        I had one before I went -- and a tin whistle -- but I got to see lots of players at the Willy Clancy festival -- now I have to find some local set dancers :-)!
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 15, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I had one before I went -- and a tin whistle -- but I got to see lots of players at the Willy
                          Clancy festival -- now I have to find some local set dancers :-)!




                          Peter McGowan wrote:
                          Did you bring one back with you?  If we ever meet up, we can play a reel or
                          a jig and drink a pint together!

                          Keep the wrist lose,
                          Peter


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Linda Rising" <risingl@...>
                          To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:48 PM
                          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development Revolution


                          Now that I'm back from Ireland, I can add a little bodhran accompaniment
                          :-)!

                          http://www.ifccsa.org/bodhran.html



                          Ken Schwaber wrote:

                          MIke,
                          Linda Rising is the bard and songstress of agile. I hope she takes these
                          >from village to village so people understand better.
                          Ken

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:50 AM
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development
                          Revolution



                          Mike:

                          Well said:

                          the intellectual baggage of _defined_ processes
                          carried over from previous lives, projects, related
                          experience, and education causes for most
                          metaphor-block and dysfunctional translation.
                          (What a challenge we have ahead of us!!!)

                          That's why it is so important to have good mentors,
                          experienced Scrum masters, and experienced developers,
                          that understand, at least in a tacit way that there
                          is a _fundamental_ difference of Agile vs. Traditional
                          (defined) software development.

                          Also, just like Ken said, I'll have to add these ones
                          to the next Gantt chart I see:

                          Task 3: Have teams self-organize, 3 days
                          Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days

                          :-) :-) ;-)

                          And I'll eve add a few more:

                          Task 5: Turn the Management pyramid upside down
                          Task 6: Adopt Agile Values

                          More relevant to Scrum, and to continue the parody above,
                          I often see trained Team Leaders and Managers
                          walking into the Scrum meeting assigning tasks and
                          expecting direct reports like (to continue the parody):

                          "Your _assigned_ task yesterday was to adopt the
                          Agile Values, were you able to do that?

                          No?!!

                          _You are having issues again_. _Report_
                          to me your any progress you are able to make
                          by tomorrow."

                          They think that management _asigns_ tasks, that it
                          is developers who have issues to resolve, and that
                          developers should _report_ back to them in the morning.

                          What we mean in Scrum is:

                          Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
                          team, can help you

                          Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
                          your control so I can help you

                          and

                          Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
                          work on next and see how we, the team, can help you

                          instead of:

                          I assign tasks to you every day

                          you must tell me the issues you may have and
                          solve them

                          and

                          you report to me every day

                          (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)

                          Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
                          micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
                          reporting,

                          - Mike


                          To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                          To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                          To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                          To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






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                        • Ken Schwaber
                          Neat!! ... From: Linda Rising [mailto:risingl@acm.org] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:48 PM To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment]
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 17, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Neat!!

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Linda Rising [mailto:risingl@...]
                            Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:48 PM
                            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development
                            Revolution


                            Now that I'm back from Ireland, I can add a little bodhran accompaniment
                            :-)!

                            http://www.ifccsa.org/bodhran.html



                            Ken Schwaber wrote:

                            >MIke,
                            >Linda Rising is the bard and songstress of agile. I hope she takes these
                            >from village to village so people understand better.
                            >Ken
                            >
                            >-----Original Message-----
                            >From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
                            >Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:50 AM
                            >To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Agile Software Development
                            >Revolution
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Mike:
                            >
                            >Well said:
                            >
                            > the intellectual baggage of _defined_ processes
                            > carried over from previous lives, projects, related
                            > experience, and education causes for most
                            > metaphor-block and dysfunctional translation.
                            > (What a challenge we have ahead of us!!!)
                            >
                            >That's why it is so important to have good mentors,
                            >experienced Scrum masters, and experienced developers,
                            >that understand, at least in a tacit way that there
                            >is a _fundamental_ difference of Agile vs. Traditional
                            >(defined) software development.
                            >
                            >Also, just like Ken said, I'll have to add these ones
                            >to the next Gantt chart I see:
                            >
                            > Task 3: Have teams self-organize, 3 days
                            > Task 4: Allow requirements to emerge, 5 days
                            >
                            >:-) :-) ;-)
                            >
                            >And I'll eve add a few more:
                            >
                            > Task 5: Turn the Management pyramid upside down
                            > Task 6: Adopt Agile Values
                            >
                            >More relevant to Scrum, and to continue the parody above,
                            >I often see trained Team Leaders and Managers
                            >walking into the Scrum meeting assigning tasks and
                            >expecting direct reports like (to continue the parody):
                            >
                            > "Your _assigned_ task yesterday was to adopt the
                            > Agile Values, were you able to do that?
                            >
                            > No?!!
                            >
                            > _You are having issues again_. _Report_
                            > to me your any progress you are able to make
                            > by tomorrow."
                            >
                            >They think that management _asigns_ tasks, that it
                            >is developers who have issues to resolve, and that
                            >developers should _report_ back to them in the morning.
                            >
                            >What we mean in Scrum is:
                            >
                            > Let me hear how things went and see how we, the
                            > team, can help you
                            >
                            > Let me hear any issues you have that go beyond
                            > your control so I can help you
                            >
                            > and
                            >
                            > Let me hear what new tasks _you are choosing_ to
                            > work on next and see how we, the team, can help you
                            >
                            >instead of:
                            >
                            > I assign tasks to you every day
                            >
                            > you must tell me the issues you may have and
                            > solve them
                            >
                            > and
                            >
                            > you report to me every day
                            >
                            > (Definitely NOT the spirit of Scrum)
                            >
                            >Attitude for the most part is what makes Scrum different than
                            >micromanagement and Master/Slave direct management and
                            >reporting,
                            >
                            >- Mike
                            >
                            >
                            >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                            >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                            >scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                            >
                            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                            >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                            scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
                            >
                            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >




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