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Time entry

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  • jtubbs117
    We still account for all Scrum Team member time in a seperate time entry system which is painful for most of the team. Burn down charts are generated out of
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 7, 2009
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      We still account for all Scrum Team member time in a seperate time entry system which is painful for most of the team. Burn down charts are generated out of the time system by asking everyone to update their time to complete (by task) every day. I am interested in knowing if there is a simpler (Best Practice) method to collect time and generate burn down charts.
    • Bas Vodde
      Did you asked the team if they have any suggestions of doing it differently? Bas
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 7, 2009
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        Did you asked the team if they have any suggestions of doing it
        differently?

        Bas

        On Mar 8, 2009, at 8:15 AM, jtubbs117 wrote:

        > We still account for all Scrum Team member time in a seperate time
        > entry system which is painful for most of the team. Burn down charts
        > are generated out of the time system by asking everyone to update
        > their time to complete (by task) every day. I am interested in
        > knowing if there is a simpler (Best Practice) method to collect time
        > and generate burn down charts.
        >
        >
        >
      • Michael Yip
        Hi there, I am not sure I understand that the pain that most of your team is complaining. Do you imply there are multiple systems you use to account for time
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 7, 2009
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          Hi there,

          I am not sure I understand that the "pain" that most of your team is complaining. Do you imply there are multiple systems you use to account for time spent by each member? How much time did each member spend everyday to update time so that burndown chart can be generated? If a member spend more than 5 minutes each day (I am being generous here), you need to seriously examine the "system" you have.

          Michael


          --- On Sat, 3/7/09, jtubbs117 <jtubbs117@...> wrote:

          From: jtubbs117 <jtubbs117@...>
          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Time entry
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 7:15 PM

          We still account for all Scrum Team member time in a seperate time entry system which is painful for most of the team. Burn down charts are generated out of the time system by asking everyone to update their time to complete (by task) every day. I am interested in knowing if there is a simpler (Best Practice) method to collect time and generate burn down charts.

        • davenicolette
          In my opinion, a simpler way and a better practice is to dispense with tracking time per task per person. Cheers, Dave
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 7, 2009
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            In my opinion, a simpler way and a better practice is to dispense with tracking time per task per person.

            Cheers,
            Dave

            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "jtubbs117" <jtubbs117@...> wrote:
            >
            > We still account for all Scrum Team member time in a seperate time entry system which is painful for most of the team. Burn down charts are generated out of the time system by asking everyone to update their time to complete (by task) every day. I am interested in knowing if there is a simpler (Best Practice) method to collect time and generate burn down charts.
            >
          • Ron Jeffries
            Hello, jtubbs117. On Saturday, March 7, 2009, at 7:15:20 PM, you ... I prefer not to do Sprint task burn downs at all. In fact, I prefer not to have tasks.
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 7, 2009
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              Hello, jtubbs117. On Saturday, March 7, 2009, at 7:15:20 PM, you
              wrote:

              > We still account for all Scrum Team member time in a seperate
              > time entry system which is painful for most of the team. Burn
              > down charts are generated out of the time system by asking
              > everyone to update their time to complete (by task) every day. I
              > am interested in knowing if there is a simpler (Best Practice)
              > method to collect time and generate burn down charts.

              I prefer not to do Sprint task burn downs at all. In fact, I prefer
              not to have tasks. Instead, use a story tracking board. It's better
              for tracking, focuses on what we care about (done software), and is
              non-obtrusive.

              Ron Jeffries
              www.XProgramming.com
              www.xprogramming.com/blog
              Attend our CSM Plus Course!
              http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=28
              Find the simple path to what works and follow it,
              always looking for a simpler path. -- Patrick D. Smith
            • Adam Sroka
              ... The best practice is not to do it. It provides no actual value. Burn down charts are generated simply by assigning a value to each story (or task) and
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 7, 2009
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                On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 4:15 PM, jtubbs117 <jtubbs117@...> wrote:
                > We still account for all Scrum Team member time in a seperate time entry
                > system which is painful for most of the team. Burn down charts are generated
                > out of the time system by asking everyone to update their time to complete
                > (by task) every day. I am interested in knowing if there is a simpler (Best
                > Practice) method to collect time and generate burn down charts.
                >

                The best practice is not to do it. It provides no actual value.

                Burn down charts are generated simply by assigning a value to each
                story (or task) and subtracting that value when the story (or task) is
                marked as complete. No one should really care how many minutes you
                spent on the task, only that the story gets done in the iteration.

                The reality is that there is no choice a lot of the time. For example,
                if your customer is any sort of government agency you have to keep
                detailed timesheets in order to get paid.

                Unfortunately, every timesheet software that I have ever encountered
                majorly sucks ass. Even if you have an exceptionally well written
                program for doing it, it is still going to suck. It's a little like
                brushing your teeth. No one really likes doing it, but it needs to be
                done. Also like brushing your teeth, it is less painful and more
                effective if you do it a few times a day. If you enter your time after
                you complete each task it will be a lot less painful than if you wait
                until the end of the week or the pay cycle and try to remember
                everything you did.
              • George Dinwiddie
                ... The best practice I know is to use a single code for any necessary payroll time tracking system and to create burn-down charts by hand based on stories
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 7, 2009
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                  jtubbs117 wrote:
                  > We still account for all Scrum Team member time in a seperate time
                  > entry system which is painful for most of the team. Burn down charts
                  > are generated out of the time system by asking everyone to update
                  > their time to complete (by task) every day. I am interested in
                  > knowing if there is a simpler (Best Practice) method to collect time
                  > and generate burn down charts.

                  The best practice I know is to use a single code for any necessary
                  payroll time tracking system and to create burn-down charts by hand
                  based on stories completed. YMMV.

                  - George

                  --
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
                  Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
                  Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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