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Prius example

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  • Joseph Little
    Hi, Someone wants to read about the Prius team and how they developed that car so fast...using something like Ba and something like Scrum. Where is the
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 3, 2009
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      Hi,

      Someone wants to read about the Prius team and how they developed that
      car so fast...using something like "Ba" and something like Scrum.

      Where is the write-up of this case? Liker's Toyota Way??

      One of the Takeuchi and Nonaka books? (Maybe yes to both.)

      Thanks, Joe
    • Mark Levison
      ... Liker s book had some discussion - but it was very short and didn t satisfy. In fact I ve been disappointed with Liker s book. I would have preferred a
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 3, 2009
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        On 2/3/09, Joseph Little <jhlittle@...> wrote:

        > Someone wants to read about the Prius team and how they developed that
        > car so fast...using something like "Ba" and something like Scrum.
        >
        > Where is the write-up of this case? Liker's Toyota Way??

        Liker's book had some discussion - but it was very short and didn't
        satisfy. In fact I've been disappointed with Liker's book. I would
        have preferred a book with a few big examples that were explored in
        detail. Instead Liker provides a bunch of snippets - enough for a
        taste but never complete.

        Cheers
        Mark

        Blog: http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/
        Recent Entries: Agile/Scrum Smells:
        http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/06/agilescrum-smells.html
        Agile Games for Making Retrospectives Interesting:
        http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/10/agile-games-for-making-retrospectives-interesting.html
      • Joseph Little
        Hi Mark, Thanks. After I got back to the hotel, I pulled out the Kindle and found Chapter 6 in Toyota Way. (I will read it tonight more carefully.) I want to
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 3, 2009
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          Hi Mark,

          Thanks. After I got back to the hotel, I pulled out the Kindle and
          found Chapter 6 in Toyota Way. (I will read it tonight more carefully.)

          I want to remind everyone that the book (The Toyota Way) is to me
          worth the price of admission just to read Liker's quote from Cho at
          the beginning of Chapter 1. I think you can find this in Google books
          (for you cheapskates out there).

          Now, it must be that Takeuchi and Nonaka also cover this case. I know
          they do. Anyone remember where?

          Mark: I have read Womack & Jones and love their stuff. Womack puts
          out a monthly e-letter (free from lean.org) which is wonderful. I know
          Liker less well, but tend to feel that Womack and Jones get to the
          chase better.

          Thanks, Joe


          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Mark Levison <mark@...> wrote:
          >
          > On 2/3/09, Joseph Little <jhlittle@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Someone wants to read about the Prius team and how they developed that
          > > car so fast...using something like "Ba" and something like Scrum.
          > >
          > > Where is the write-up of this case? Liker's Toyota Way??
          >
          > Liker's book had some discussion - but it was very short and didn't
          > satisfy. In fact I've been disappointed with Liker's book. I would
          > have preferred a book with a few big examples that were explored in
          > detail. Instead Liker provides a bunch of snippets - enough for a
          > taste but never complete.
          >
          > Cheers
          > Mark
          >
          > Blog: http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/
          > Recent Entries: Agile/Scrum Smells:
          > http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/06/agilescrum-smells.html
          > Agile Games for Making Retrospectives Interesting:
          >
          http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/10/agile-games-for-making-retrospectives-interesting.html
          >
        • Bas Vodde
          Hi Joe, There is a book out there called The Machine that Shook the World . It described the Prius development and is the source of all the info about Prius
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 4, 2009
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            Hi Joe,

            There is a book out there called "The Machine that Shook the World".
            It described the Prius development and is the source of all the info
            about Prius AFAIK.

            You can find the digital version online, if you look for it. Hope that
            helps :)

            Bas

            On Feb 4, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Joseph Little wrote:

            > Hi Mark,
            >
            > Thanks. After I got back to the hotel, I pulled out the Kindle and
            > found Chapter 6 in Toyota Way. (I will read it tonight more
            > carefully.)
            >
            > I want to remind everyone that the book (The Toyota Way) is to me
            > worth the price of admission just to read Liker's quote from Cho at
            > the beginning of Chapter 1. I think you can find this in Google books
            > (for you cheapskates out there).
            >
            > Now, it must be that Takeuchi and Nonaka also cover this case. I know
            > they do. Anyone remember where?
            >
            > Mark: I have read Womack & Jones and love their stuff. Womack puts
            > out a monthly e-letter (free from lean.org) which is wonderful. I know
            > Liker less well, but tend to feel that Womack and Jones get to the
            > chase better.
            >
            > Thanks, Joe
            >
            > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Mark Levison <mark@...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > On 2/3/09, Joseph Little <jhlittle@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > Someone wants to read about the Prius team and how they
            > developed that
            > > > car so fast...using something like "Ba" and something like Scrum.
            > > >
            > > > Where is the write-up of this case? Liker's Toyota Way??
            > >
            > > Liker's book had some discussion - but it was very short and didn't
            > > satisfy. In fact I've been disappointed with Liker's book. I would
            > > have preferred a book with a few big examples that were explored in
            > > detail. Instead Liker provides a bunch of snippets - enough for a
            > > taste but never complete.
            > >
            > > Cheers
            > > Mark
            > >
            > > Blog: http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/
            > > Recent Entries: Agile/Scrum Smells:
            > > http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/06/agilescrum-smells.html
            > > Agile Games for Making Retrospectives Interesting:
            > >
            > http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/10/agile-games-for-making-retrospectives-interesting.html
            > >
            >
            >
            >
          • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
            Joe Just a thought Is the prius an operationally valid example? I ask because I know of only this team who had a checkbook with no end at their disposal. From
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 4, 2009
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              Joe
              Just a thought
              Is the prius an operationally valid example? I ask because I know of only this team who had a checkbook with no end at their disposal. From where I am in the trenches that is beyond comprehension. I know it adds a whole galaxy of other issues but what value is that experience to my situation

              Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


              From: "Joseph Little"
              Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:13:01 -0000
              To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Prius example

              Hi,

              Someone wants to read about the Prius team and how they developed that
              car so fast...using something like "Ba" and something like Scrum.

              Where is the write-up of this case? Liker's Toyota Way??

              One of the Takeuchi and Nonaka books? (Maybe yes to both.)

              Thanks, Joe

            • Joseph Little
              Hi Bas, The Machine That Changed the World by Womack, Jones & Roos? I will check it. I am still positive that Takeuchi & Nonaka have written about this. I
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 4, 2009
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                Hi Bas,

                The Machine That Changed the World by Womack, Jones & Roos? I will
                check it.

                I am still "positive" that Takeuchi & Nonaka have written about this.

                I am also "positive" that Liker and Takeuchi & Nonaka have "direct"
                info of the Prius (ie, more than just reading Womack & Jones).

                These are both opinions really; can't prove it just now.

                Thanks!
                Joe



                --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Bas Vodde <basv@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi Joe,
                >
                > There is a book out there called "The Machine that Shook the World".
                > It described the Prius development and is the source of all the info
                > about Prius AFAIK.
                >
                > You can find the digital version online, if you look for it. Hope that
                > helps :)
                >
                > Bas
                >
                > On Feb 4, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Joseph Little wrote:
                >
                > > Hi Mark,
                > >
                > > Thanks. After I got back to the hotel, I pulled out the Kindle and
                > > found Chapter 6 in Toyota Way. (I will read it tonight more
                > > carefully.)
                > >
                > > I want to remind everyone that the book (The Toyota Way) is to me
                > > worth the price of admission just to read Liker's quote from Cho at
                > > the beginning of Chapter 1. I think you can find this in Google books
                > > (for you cheapskates out there).
                > >
                > > Now, it must be that Takeuchi and Nonaka also cover this case. I know
                > > they do. Anyone remember where?
                > >
                > > Mark: I have read Womack & Jones and love their stuff. Womack puts
                > > out a monthly e-letter (free from lean.org) which is wonderful. I know
                > > Liker less well, but tend to feel that Womack and Jones get to the
                > > chase better.
                > >
                > > Thanks, Joe
                > >
                > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Mark Levison <mark@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > On 2/3/09, Joseph Little <jhlittle@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > Someone wants to read about the Prius team and how they
                > > developed that
                > > > > car so fast...using something like "Ba" and something like Scrum.
                > > > >
                > > > > Where is the write-up of this case? Liker's Toyota Way??
                > > >
                > > > Liker's book had some discussion - but it was very short and didn't
                > > > satisfy. In fact I've been disappointed with Liker's book. I would
                > > > have preferred a book with a few big examples that were explored in
                > > > detail. Instead Liker provides a bunch of snippets - enough for a
                > > > taste but never complete.
                > > >
                > > > Cheers
                > > > Mark
                > > >
                > > > Blog: http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/
                > > > Recent Entries: Agile/Scrum Smells:
                > > > http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/06/agilescrum-smells.html
                > > > Agile Games for Making Retrospectives Interesting:
                > > >
                > >
                http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/10/agile-games-for-making-retrospectives-interesting.html
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Roy Morien
                The Machine that Changed the World does not talk about the Prius ... in fact, the book pre-dates the Prius by about 10 years. Maybe people are thinking about
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 4, 2009
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                  'The Machine that Changed the World' does not talk about the Prius ... in fact, the book pre-dates the Prius by about 10 years. Maybe people are thinking about the development of the Lexus, not the Prius. There is brief mention of a number of Toyota models in that book, but not a lot of discussion.
                   
                  The Liker book (The Toyota Way) does discuss the Prius in some depth however, and the Lexus.
                   
                  Another book that has many case studies on Lean product development, and Lean manufacturing, is again by Womack & Jones 'Lean Thinking'. This is an excellent and quite exciting and inspiring book in many ways. It does discuss Toyota quite a bit, but neither the Prius nor the Lexus crack a mention.
                   
                  Regards,
                  Roy Morien




                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  From: jhlittle@...
                  Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 05:00:52 +0000
                  Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Prius example


                  Hi Bas,

                  The Machine That Changed the World by Womack, Jones & Roos? I will
                  check it.

                  I am still "positive" that Takeuchi & Nonaka have written about this.

                  I am also "positive" that Liker and Takeuchi & Nonaka have "direct"
                  info of the Prius (ie, more than just reading Womack & Jones).

                  These are both opinions really; can't prove it just now.

                  Thanks!
                  Joe

                  --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, Bas Vodde <basv@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Joe,
                  >
                  > There is a book out there called "The Machine that Shook the World".
                  > It described the Prius development and is the source of all the info
                  > about Prius AFAIK.
                  >
                  > You can find the digital version online, if you look for it. Hope that
                  > helps :)
                  >
                  > Bas
                  >
                  > On Feb 4, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Joseph Little wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi Mark,
                  > >
                  > > Thanks. After I got back to the hotel, I pulled out the Kindle and
                  > > found Chapter 6 in Toyota Way. (I will read it tonight more
                  > > carefully.)
                  > >
                  > > I want to remind everyone that the book (The Toyota Way) is to me
                  > > worth the price of admission just to read Liker's quote from Cho at
                  > > the beginning of Chapter 1. I think you can find this in Google books
                  > > (for you cheapskates out there).
                  > >
                  > > Now, it must be that Takeuchi and Nonaka also cover this case. I know
                  > > they do. Anyone remember where?
                  > >
                  > > Mark: I have read Womack & Jones and love their stuff. Womack puts
                  > > out a monthly e-letter (free from lean.org) which is wonderful. I know
                  > > Liker less well, but tend to feel that Womack and Jones get to the
                  > > chase better.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks, Joe
                  > >
                  > > --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, Mark Levison <mark@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > On 2/3/09, Joseph Little <jhlittle@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > Someone wants to read about the Prius team and how they
                  > > developed that
                  > > > > car so fast...using something like "Ba" and something like Scrum.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Where is the write-up of this case? Liker's Toyota Way??
                  > > >
                  > > > Liker's book had some discussion - but it was very short and didn't
                  > > > satisfy. In fact I've been disappointed with Liker's book. I would
                  > > > have preferred a book with a few big examples that were explored in
                  > > > detail. Instead Liker provides a bunch of snippets - enough for a
                  > > > taste but never complete.
                  > > >
                  > > > Cheers
                  > > > Mark
                  > > >
                  > > > Blog: http://www.notesfro matooluser. com/
                  > > > Recent Entries: Agile/Scrum Smells:
                  > > > http://www.notesfro matooluser. com/2008/ 06/agilescrum- smells.html
                  > > > Agile Games for Making Retrospectives Interesting:
                  > > >
                  > >
                  http://www.notesfro matooluser. com/2008/ 10/agile- games-for- making-retrospec tives-interestin g.html
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >




                  Combine your email accounts here! Want to marry your mail?
                • Joseph Little
                  Hi Mike, I don t know Mike. Perhaps you are right. Per Liker s book, they got a lot of money. And some complained it was too much. Liker says the benefits
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 4, 2009
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                    Hi Mike,

                    I don't know Mike. Perhaps you are right. Per Liker's book, they got
                    a lot of money. And some complained it was too much. Liker says the
                    benefits were cheaply bought at those costs. I suppose opinions might
                    vary.

                    I could be cute and say my sister-in-law's Prius operates just fine,
                    thank you. <smile>

                    I don't read this case as the guys on the teams were pulled into being
                    bad by all that money. A lot of the money I think is normal in auto
                    design.

                    Forget about the money...
                    As I read it, that team did lots of things I don't want to learn
                    (worked too hard, made bigger promises than I want most of my teams to
                    make, etc). AND...they used the war room and the concept of "Ba" in
                    ways I'd like more of my teams to do.

                    I also take a lesson about finding or motivating the managers into
                    getting our impediments moved out of the way. And focusing on the
                    benefits much more than the costs.

                    In general, I'm ok to learn from imperfect situations. In fact, I
                    never find anything but imperfect situations. Perhaps you are having
                    better luck? <smile>

                    Thanks, Joe



                    --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, mike.dwyer1@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Joe
                    > Just a thought
                    > Is the prius an operationally valid example? I ask because I know
                    of only this team who had a checkbook with no end at their disposal.
                    From where I am in the trenches that is beyond comprehension. I know
                    it adds a whole galaxy of other issues but what value is that
                    experience to my situation
                    > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: "Joseph Little" <jhlittle@...>
                    >
                    > Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:13:01
                    > To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Prius example
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > Someone wants to read about the Prius team and how they developed that
                    > car so fast...using something like "Ba" and something like Scrum.
                    >
                    > Where is the write-up of this case? Liker's Toyota Way??
                    >
                    > One of the Takeuchi and Nonaka books? (Maybe yes to both.)
                    >
                    > Thanks, Joe
                    >
                  • Bas Vodde
                    Hi, Sorry, correction to my mail. The book is called The Prius that shook the world not the machine. Was too tired when typing the mail. Its written by a
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 5, 2009
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                      Hi,

                      Sorry, correction to my mail.

                      The book is called "The Prius that shook the world" not the machine.
                      Was too tired when typing the mail. Its written by a journalist who
                      participated the Prius development.

                      Hope this helps and sorry for the confusion.

                      Bas

                      On Feb 4, 2009, at 5:04 PM, Bas Vodde wrote:

                      >
                      > Hi Joe,
                      >
                      > There is a book out there called "The Machine that Shook the World".
                      > It described the Prius development and is the source of all the info
                      > about Prius AFAIK.
                      >
                      > You can find the digital version online, if you look for it. Hope that
                      > helps :)
                      >
                      > Bas
                      >
                      > On Feb 4, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Joseph Little wrote:
                      >
                      >> Hi Mark,
                      >>
                      >> Thanks. After I got back to the hotel, I pulled out the Kindle and
                      >> found Chapter 6 in Toyota Way. (I will read it tonight more
                      >> carefully.)
                      >>
                      >> I want to remind everyone that the book (The Toyota Way) is to me
                      >> worth the price of admission just to read Liker's quote from Cho at
                      >> the beginning of Chapter 1. I think you can find this in Google books
                      >> (for you cheapskates out there).
                      >>
                      >> Now, it must be that Takeuchi and Nonaka also cover this case. I know
                      >> they do. Anyone remember where?
                      >>
                      >> Mark: I have read Womack & Jones and love their stuff. Womack puts
                      >> out a monthly e-letter (free from lean.org) which is wonderful. I
                      >> know
                      >> Liker less well, but tend to feel that Womack and Jones get to the
                      >> chase better.
                      >>
                      >> Thanks, Joe
                      >>
                      >> --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Mark Levison <mark@...>
                      >> wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>> On 2/3/09, Joseph Little <jhlittle@...> wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>>> Someone wants to read about the Prius team and how they
                      >> developed that
                      >>>> car so fast...using something like "Ba" and something like Scrum.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Where is the write-up of this case? Liker's Toyota Way??
                      >>>
                      >>> Liker's book had some discussion - but it was very short and didn't
                      >>> satisfy. In fact I've been disappointed with Liker's book. I would
                      >>> have preferred a book with a few big examples that were explored in
                      >>> detail. Instead Liker provides a bunch of snippets - enough for a
                      >>> taste but never complete.
                      >>>
                      >>> Cheers
                      >>> Mark
                      >>>
                      >>> Blog: http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/
                      >>> Recent Entries: Agile/Scrum Smells:
                      >>> http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/06/agilescrum-smells.html
                      >>> Agile Games for Making Retrospectives Interesting:
                      >>>
                      >> http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/10/agile-games-for-making-retrospectives-interesting.html
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
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