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Does SCRUM have some communism values?

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  • wboton
    Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to depend on. All
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 11, 2008
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      Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
      commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
      depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
      little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
      a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
      bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.

      Does all this means that people that want to be recognized by their
      expertise shouldn't work with SCRUM? A developer that want to have a
      fast grow in his career should avoid work on a scrum team?

      One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
      company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
      talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
      because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
      interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
      behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
      nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"

      What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
      want to be hidden inside a team?

      Thank you.
      http://www.wboton.com
    • Lucas Wall
      I don t see how using Scrum, or not, makes any difference on the point you are trying to raise. If you work within a team, and not use Scrum, you could still
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 11, 2008
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        I don't see how using Scrum, or not, makes any difference on the point
        you are trying to raise. If you work within a team, and not use Scrum,
        you could still be behind a producer, project leader, or similar.

        If you excell on what you do you can still get recognition from your
        team, scrum master and product owner, and they could, if this is what
        you are looking for, pass the word to top managment.

        Also, I don't think (but this is a personal opinion) being
        crossfunctional means you will end up doing any random task. If you
        are good at something you will probably lead the effort on that front,
        and probably help the team be better at that, and... maybe... get a
        whole lot of genuine recognition for that.

        Just my 2 cents...

        On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 11:04 PM, wboton <wboton@...> wrote:
        > Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
        > commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
        > depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
        > little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
        > a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
        > bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.
        >
        > Does all this means that people that want to be recognized by their
        > expertise shouldn't work with SCRUM? A developer that want to have a
        > fast grow in his career should avoid work on a scrum team?
        >
        > One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
        > company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
        > talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
        > because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
        > interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
        > behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
        > nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"
        >
        > What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
        > want to be hidden inside a team?
        >
        > Thank you.
        > http://www.wboton.com
        >
        >



        --
        Lucas Wall - COO QB9
        http://www.qb9.net
        Skype Id: lucaswall
        Office: BA +(54 11) 4855 9371
        Mobile: BA +(54 911) 3189 1076
        FAX: US +(1 646) 478 9691
        http://www.linkedin.com/in/lucaswall
      • Alan Dayley
        ... Interesting question. Ask the developer: Were his successes and recognition achieved without the help of anyone else? Would he put on his resume that he
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 11, 2008
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          On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:04 PM, wboton <wboton@...> wrote:
          > Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
          > commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
          > depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
          > little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
          > a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
          > bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.
          >
          > Does all this means that people that want to be recognized by their
          > expertise shouldn't work with SCRUM? A developer that want to have a
          > fast grow in his career should avoid work on a scrum team?
          >
          > One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
          > company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
          > talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
          > because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
          > interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
          > behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
          > nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"
          >
          > What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
          > want to be hidden inside a team?

          Interesting question.

          Ask the developer:

          Were his successes and recognition achieved without the help of anyone else?
          Would he put on his resume that he doesn't work well with a team?

          The best people I have ever worked with were the ones who shined
          without trying AND helped me along the way.

          Alan
        • Alan Cyment
          I d say that actually Scrum IS like communism: when badly implemented, things go awfully wrong at many a level cheers, Alan
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 11, 2008
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            I'd say that actually Scrum IS like communism: when badly implemented,
            things go awfully wrong at many a level

            cheers,
            Alan

            On 11/11/08, wboton <wboton@...> wrote:
            > Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
            > commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
            > depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
            > little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
            > a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
            > bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.
            >
            > Does all this means that people that want to be recognized by their
            > expertise shouldn't work with SCRUM? A developer that want to have a
            > fast grow in his career should avoid work on a scrum team?
            >
            > One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
            > company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
            > talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
            > because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
            > interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
            > behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
            > nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"
            >
            > What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
            > want to be hidden inside a team?
            >
            > Thank you.
            > http://www.wboton.com
            >
            >
          • Roy Morien
            I think that rather pleasant view of communism is a wee bit misleading. Notwithstanding the purported view of a glorious future of equality and shared wealth
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 11, 2008
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              I think that rather pleasant view of communism is a wee bit misleading. Notwithstanding the purported view of a glorious future of equality and shared wealth etc., communism was actually a rigidly enforced 'command and control' system, imposed and managed by the state. The utter antithesis of the voluntary team oriented, collaborative, self-managing situation envisaged in the agile approach to product development. Which is still not anarchy, by any means, but is certainly not 'communist'.
               
              Regards,
              Roy Morien



              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              From: alandd@...
              Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:38:05 -0700
              Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Does SCRUM have some communism values?


              On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:04 PM, wboton <wboton@gmail. com> wrote:
              > Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
              > commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
              > depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
              > little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
              > a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
              > bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.
              >
              > Does all this means that people that want to be recognized by their
              > expertise shouldn't work with SCRUM? A developer that want to have a
              > fast grow in his career should avoid work on a scrum team?
              >
              > One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
              > company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
              > talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
              > because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
              > interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
              > behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
              > nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"
              >
              > What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
              > want to be hidden inside a team?

              Interesting question.

              Ask the developer:

              Were his successes and recognition achieved without the help of anyone else?
              Would he put on his resume that he doesn't work well with a team?

              The best people I have ever worked with were the ones who shined
              without trying AND helped me along the way.

              Alan



              Multiple prizes and the ultimate dream beach house! Take a summer road trip with Windows Live Hotmail.
            • Eric Deslauriers
              The questions are... - Was this fellow a Hero (TM)? - Was he being recognized for swooping in to Save the day. ? - Was he a cowboy when it came to design
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 11, 2008
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                The questions are... 

                - Was this fellow a "Hero" (TM)? 
                - Was he being recognized for swooping in to "Save the day."?
                - Was he a cowboy when it came to design and implementation?
                - Was he a loner, solving issues by himself?

                If any of these are true, I'm sure he hates Scrum. And you need to assess if it's OK if he chooses not to be on the team/in the company.

                There is something else we all need to look out for.

                I frequently see recognition to the teams which fight fires all the time, and the team running like the electric company gets overlooked.

                Let me ask you - which team is doing the better job? 

                When's the last time you thought about all the things your electric company does to keep power running to your house? 
                  If you're like most, during a major storm when there was, surprisingly, no outage, the day after an a big storm and an outage when you saw electric company workers picking the power lines off the ground to reinstall them on the poles, or the average morning you got up and your electricity was out (along with some swearing probably).

                I worked with a manager once who lauded an employee who worked 100 hour weeks and derided an employee who worked mid-40s. The problem was this manager was not evaluating outcomes. The mid-40 hour worker was easily as effective and productive in a given week as the 100 hour worker. Rewarding effort is common, but generally misguided IMHO. We should reward outcomes because that's what we want. We don't want "try", we want "done" (heh).

                A team running like the electric company deserves a TON of recognition. The constant firefighters? Maybe they need some rigor applied (and maybe not, all situations are different... but)...

                Regards,
                Eric D

                On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 5:04 PM, wboton <wboton@...> wrote:

                Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
                commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
                depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
                little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
                a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
                bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.

                Does all this means that people that want to be recognized by their
                expertise shouldn't work with SCRUM? A developer that want to have a
                fast grow in his career should avoid work on a scrum team?

                One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
                company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
                talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
                because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
                interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
                behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
                nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"

                What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
                want to be hidden inside a team?

                Thank you.
                http://www.wboton.com




                --
                Eric D
                08 K1200S Tricolor (phreowww)
                06 Husqvarna TE610
              • Roy Morien
                Communism bore the seeds of its own destruction, within its basic philosophy. The people aspect of communism was divided into two main parts. The mass of the
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 11, 2008
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                  Communism bore the seeds of its own destruction, within its basic philosophy. The 'people' aspect of communism was divided into two main parts. The mass of the people, who were subjugated to 'the common good', and the 'managers' who fought tooth and nail to hold the system together, including a major dose of self-seeking and self-preservation.
                   
                  Agile methods, per se, bear the seeds of success within its basic philosophy. The 'people' aspect of agile is divided into a number of parts, including the 'mass of the people', ie: the development team, who are empowered to manage themselves to a great extent, to achieve a common purpose. They are not subjugated, but may still fail for many reasons, not necessarilly or even realistically because of the agile method.
                   
                  So, No, I cannot agree that Scrum IS like communism, even in the aspect suggested here.
                   
                  Regards,
                  Roy Morien




                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  From: acyment@...
                  Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 00:59:06 -0400
                  Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Does SCRUM have some communism values?


                  I'd say that actually Scrum IS like communism: when badly implemented,
                  things go awfully wrong at many a level

                  cheers,
                  Alan

                  On 11/11/08, wboton <wboton@gmail. com> wrote:
                  > Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
                  > commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
                  > depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
                  > little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
                  > a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
                  > bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.
                  >
                  > Does all this means that people that want to be recognized by their
                  > expertise shouldn't work with SCRUM? A developer that want to have a
                  > fast grow in his career should avoid work on a scrum team?
                  >
                  > One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
                  > company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
                  > talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
                  > because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
                  > interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
                  > behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
                  > nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"
                  >
                  > What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
                  > want to be hidden inside a team?
                  >
                  > Thank you.
                  > http://www.wboton. com
                  >
                  >



                  Find your ideal job with SEEK Time for change?
                • Xavier Quesada Allue
                  I think there is a strong misconception on the topic of cross-functionality. Cross-functionality is neither an agile principle nor a mandated practice in Scrum
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 12, 2008
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                    I think there is a strong misconception on the topic of
                    cross-functionality. Cross-functionality is neither an agile principle
                    nor a mandated practice in Scrum or any other Agile flavor.
                    Cross-functionality is simply a pattern that emerges in effective
                    teams.

                    You can perfectly have a fully Agile team of all-specialist people who
                    only do their specialty.

                    But when things go wrong, meaning work gets out of balance, and the
                    team needs to focus their effort on a specific skill in order to
                    finish the task at hand, what do all non-specialist team members do?
                    Sit and watch, or help out? The better teams help themselves out. The
                    not-so-good teams sit and watch, because even if they would want to
                    help out, they are helpless to do so, since they have not
                    cross-trained themselves in other disciplines or are unwilling to
                    practice them.

                    Regards,
                    Xavier

                    On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 6:38 AM, Roy Morien <roymorien@...> wrote:
                    > Communism bore the seeds of its own destruction, within its basic
                    > philosophy. The 'people' aspect of communism was divided into two main
                    > parts. The mass of the people, who were subjugated to 'the common good', and
                    > the 'managers' who fought tooth and nail to hold the system together,
                    > including a major dose of self-seeking and self-preservation.
                    >
                    > Agile methods, per se, bear the seeds of success within its basic
                    > philosophy. The 'people' aspect of agile is divided into a number of parts,
                    > including the 'mass of the people', ie: the development team, who are
                    > empowered to manage themselves to a great extent, to achieve a common
                    > purpose. They are not subjugated, but may still fail for many reasons, not
                    > necessarilly or even realistically because of the agile method.
                    >
                    > So, No, I cannot agree that Scrum IS like communism, even in the aspect
                    > suggested here.
                    >
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > Roy Morien
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: acyment@...
                    > Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 00:59:06 -0400
                    > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Does SCRUM have some communism values?
                    >
                    >
                    > I'd say that actually Scrum IS like communism: when badly implemented,
                    > things go awfully wrong at many a level
                    >
                    > cheers,
                    > Alan
                    >
                    > On 11/11/08, wboton <wboton@...> wrote:
                    >> Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
                    >> commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
                    >> depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
                    >> little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
                    >> a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
                    >> bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.
                    >>
                    >> Does all this means that people that want to be recognized by their
                    >> expertise shouldn't work with SCRUM? A developer that want to have a
                    >> fast grow in his career should avoid work on a scrum team?
                    >>
                    >> One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
                    >> company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
                    >> talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
                    >> because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
                    >> interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
                    >> behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
                    >> nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"
                    >>
                    >> What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
                    >> want to be hidden inside a team?
                    >>
                    >> Thank you.
                    >> http://www.wboton.com
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > Find your ideal job with SEEK Time for change?
                    >
                  • Joseph Little
                    Hi, Comparing Scrum to communism is bogus. (As partly explained below.) Scrum is much closer to the self-organization in free enterprise (ie, capitalism).
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 12, 2008
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                      Hi,

                      Comparing Scrum to communism is bogus. (As partly explained below.)
                      Scrum is much closer to the self-organization in free enterprise (ie,
                      capitalism). Scrum is much more about freedom.

                      No one said all the rewards go to the team (and not to individuals).

                      Scrum does recognize that people are pack animals, and work best in
                      teams. And anyway, our work now seems to require that (almost
                      always). Freedom includes the freedom to assemble [into teams] as we
                      please (ok, perhaps a bit too cleverly said, but you get the point).

                      Yes, Scrum puts less emphasis on "individualism", which, while the
                      individual is very important, has been overstressed at work, in my
                      opinion.

                      Thanks, Joe



                      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "wboton" <wboton@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
                      > commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
                      > depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
                      > little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
                      > a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
                      > bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.
                      >
                      > Does all this means that people that want to be recognized by their
                      > expertise shouldn't work with SCRUM? A developer that want to have a
                      > fast grow in his career should avoid work on a scrum team?
                      >
                      > One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
                      > company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
                      > talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
                      > because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
                      > interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
                      > behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
                      > nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"
                      >
                      > What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
                      > want to be hidden inside a team?
                      >
                      > Thank you.
                      > http://www.wboton.com
                      >
                    • woynam
                      As far as I m aware, Scrum has not led to the murder of millions of its team members, unlike communism. I m sure there were instances where team members wanted
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 12, 2008
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                        As far as I'm aware, Scrum has not led to the murder of millions of
                        its team members, unlike communism.

                        I'm sure there were instances where team members wanted to kill each
                        other, however.

                        Mark

                        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "wboton" <wboton@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
                        > commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
                        > depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
                        > little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
                        > a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
                        > bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.
                        >
                        > Does all this means that people that want to be recognized by their
                        > expertise shouldn't work with SCRUM? A developer that want to have a
                        > fast grow in his career should avoid work on a scrum team?
                        >
                        > One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
                        > company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
                        > talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
                        > because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
                        > interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
                        > behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
                        > nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"
                        >
                        > What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
                        > want to be hidden inside a team?
                        >
                        > Thank you.
                        > http://www.wboton.com
                        >
                      • Angela Druckman
                        You are probably spot on Eric - Behaviors that make an individual feel important and valued can often be in direct conflict with the greater goals of the
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 12, 2008
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                          You are probably spot on Eric -
                           
                          Behaviors that make an individual feel important and valued can often be in direct conflict with the greater goals of the business.  Some folks seem to (subconsciously, I assume) delight in creating messes so they can be the one to swoop in and clean them up.
                           
                          There is a ton of pride to be gained in being part of an elite team.  When people say with pride "I am a Marine" or "I play for the NY Yankees" they are empahsizing the accomplishments of the group, not just themselves.  Imagine a baseball pitcher lamenting no one notices how he contributes because he is "just another team member" and not out there on his own--
                           
                               --Angela

                           


                          From: Eric Deslauriers <eric.deslauriers@...>
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:23:53 PM
                          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Does SCRUM have some communism values?

                          The questions are... 


                          - Was this fellow a "Hero" (TM)? 
                          - Was he being recognized for swooping in to "Save the day."?
                          - Was he a cowboy when it came to design and implementation?
                          - Was he a loner, solving issues by himself?

                          If any of these are true, I'm sure he hates Scrum. And you need to assess if it's OK if he chooses not to be on the team/in the company.

                          There is something else we all need to look out for.

                          I frequently see recognition to the teams which fight fires all the time, and the team running like the electric company gets overlooked.

                          Let me ask you - which team is doing the better job? 

                          When's the last time you thought about all the things your electric company does to keep power running to your house? 
                            If you're like most, during a major storm when there was, surprisingly, no outage, the day after an a big storm and an outage when you saw electric company workers picking the power lines off the ground to reinstall them on the poles, or the average morning you got up and your electricity was out (along with some swearing probably).

                          I worked with a manager once who lauded an employee who worked 100 hour weeks and derided an employee who worked mid-40s. The problem was this manager was not evaluating outcomes. The mid-40 hour worker was easily as effective and productive in a given week as the 100 hour worker. Rewarding effort is common, but generally misguided IMHO. We should reward outcomes because that's what we want. We don't want "try", we want "done" (heh).

                          A team running like the electric company deserves a TON of recognition. The constant firefighters? Maybe they need some rigor applied (and maybe not, all situations are different... but)...

                          Regards,
                          Eric D

                          On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 5:04 PM, wboton <wboton@gmail. com> wrote:

                          Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
                          commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
                          depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
                          little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
                          a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
                          bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.

                          Does all this means that people that want to be recognized by their
                          expertise shouldn't work with SCRUM? A developer that want to have a
                          fast grow in his career should avoid work on a scrum team?

                          One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
                          company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
                          talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
                          because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
                          interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
                          behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
                          nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"

                          What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
                          want to be hidden inside a team?

                          Thank you.
                          http://www.wboton. com




                          --
                          Eric D
                          08 K1200S Tricolor (phreowww)
                          06 Husqvarna TE610

                        • STEPHEN POVILAITIS
                          ... You are probably spot on Eric - Behaviors that make an individual feel important and valued can often be in direct conflict with the greater goals of the
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 13, 2008
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                            >>> angela.druckman@... 11/12/2008 6:55 PM >>>
                            You are probably spot on Eric -

                            Behaviors that make an individual feel important and valued can often
                            be in direct conflict with the greater goals of the business. Some
                            folks seem to (subconsciously, I assume) delight in creating messes so
                            they can be the one to swoop in and clean them up.

                            Great point Angela. 'Cowboy Coders' as they are known can be a huge
                            detriment to the success of a development team. Paul Duvall has a great
                            write-up about how sometimes people that might at first glance appear to
                            be a superstar are often the root of the problems themselves. The
                            article is called 'Fire your best people...reward the lazy ones' :

                            http://www.testearly.com/2007/08/17/fire-your-best-peoplereward-the-lazy-ones/

                            I faced a situation like this at a previous employer where the
                            management was in effect, 'enabling' the cowboy coding practices of a
                            particular individual by not enforcing coding/design standards, peer
                            reviews, documentation, etc, etc. This person was then the only one that
                            could fix their shoddy code when it inevitably broke.

                            Steve
                          • rsilverback
                            I live in an ex-communist country (the Czech Republic). Communism created a culture of suspicion and mistrust. People became extremely self-absorbed as a
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 13, 2008
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                              I live in an ex-communist country (the Czech Republic). Communism
                              created a culture of suspicion and mistrust. People became extremely
                              self-absorbed as a result. There was a nice proverb: "If you are not
                              stealing from the state, you are stealing from your family".

                              Scrum, on the other hand, is all about establishing trust, so you can
                              drop suspicion and start collaborating.
                            • James S. Fosdick, PMP, CSP
                              ... Firstly I would say that your analogy between Scrum and Communism is not apt. Communism (at least as practiced in the 20th & 21st centuries) was/is
                              Message 14 of 16 , Nov 14, 2008
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                                --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "wboton" <wboton@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
                                > commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
                                > depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
                                > little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
                                > a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
                                > bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.
                                >

                                Firstly I would say that your analogy between Scrum and Communism is
                                not apt. Communism (at least as practiced in the 20th & 21st
                                centuries) was/is predicated on central planning and a command and
                                control approach to decision making. It is inherently top-down whereas
                                Scrum is bottom up. On that basis alone the analogy fails.

                                > One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
                                > company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
                                > talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
                                > because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
                                > interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
                                > behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
                                > nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"
                                >
                                > What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
                                > want to be hidden inside a team?

                                I think what is necessary here is a change in mindset. It is not true
                                that nobody sees your work on a Scrum team. First of all your team
                                sees your work and they are the ones you should care about. Someone
                                who is more concerned about what the boss thinks has misplaced
                                priorities I would argue. We usually refer to these kinds of
                                developers as "heroes". They want fortune and glory for themselves
                                rather than sharing it with their team. This is both selfish and short
                                sighted. An individual no matter how great will never achieve as much
                                alone as he will as part of a high performance team. Your developer
                                claims that personal recognition allowed him to work on different and
                                interesting projects. Hyper performing Scrum teams also get to work on
                                different an interesting projects and they achieve greater success. I
                                have witnessed several implementations where a really good Scrum team
                                has become a highly desired commodity within the organization and has,
                                as a result of continue outstanding performance continually gotten the
                                best and most visible projects.

                                Even so Scrum is not for everyone. If someone is truly only motivated
                                by individual recognition that person will likely not be happy on a
                                Scrum team. So be it.


                                >
                                > Thank you.
                                > http://www.wboton.com
                                >
                              • James S. Fosdick, PMP, CSP
                                ... Firstly I would say that your analogy between Scrum and Communism is not apt. Communism (at least as practiced in the 20th & 21st centuries) was/is
                                Message 15 of 16 , Nov 14, 2008
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                                  --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "wboton" <wboton@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Scrum is about team work. All team members work together to achieve a
                                  > commom objective. Teams need to be cross-functional, no specialist to
                                  > depend on. All rewards goes to the team, never to the individuals. A
                                  > little bit like communism where the group comes before the individual,
                                  > a society with no division or alienation, where a "wealthy
                                  > bourgeoisie" of specialists, architects, designers, etc, are combated.
                                  >

                                  Firstly I would say that your analogy between Scrum and Communism is
                                  not apt. Communism (at least as practiced in the 20th & 21st
                                  centuries) was/is predicated on central planning and a command and
                                  control approach to decision making. It is inherently top-down whereas
                                  Scrum is bottom up. On that basis alone the analogy fails.

                                  > One of our developer said to me: "I was recognized by the owner of the
                                  > company I worked before, I had the oportunity to lead some projects, I
                                  > talked with lots of people that recognize me as a good programmer and,
                                  > because of that, I had the opportunity to work on different and
                                  > interesting projects. Now that I'm working in a Scrum team, I'm hidden
                                  > behind a scrummaster and a Product owner. Nobody else see my work and
                                  > nobody know that I can do more. I'm stucked!"
                                  >
                                  > What should I say to him? Quit? Does SCRUM need only team members that
                                  > want to be hidden inside a team?

                                  I think what is necessary here is a change in mindset. It is not true
                                  that nobody sees your work on a Scrum team. First of all your team
                                  sees your work and they are the ones you should care about. Someone
                                  who is more concerned about what the boss thinks has misplaced
                                  priorities I would argue. We usually refer to these kinds of
                                  developers as "heroes". They want fortune and glory for themselves
                                  rather than sharing it with their team. This is both selfish and short
                                  sighted. An individual no matter how great will never achieve as much
                                  alone as he will as part of a high performance team. Your developer
                                  claims that personal recognition allowed him to work on different and
                                  interesting projects. Hyper performing Scrum teams also get to work on
                                  different an interesting projects and they achieve greater success. I
                                  have witnessed several implementations where a really good Scrum team
                                  has become a highly desired commodity within the organization and has,
                                  as a result of continue outstanding performance continually gotten the
                                  best and most visible projects.

                                  Even so Scrum is not for everyone. If someone is truly only motivated
                                  by individual recognition that person will likely not be happy on a
                                  Scrum team. So be it.


                                  >
                                  > Thank you.
                                  > http://www.wboton.com
                                  >
                                • OKelley, Jerry
                                  I think the issue that hasn t been discussed so far, is why this engineer/coder/tester feels that his/her accomplishments are now totally hidden and
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Nov 14, 2008
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                                    I think the issue that hasn’t been discussed so far, is why this engineer/coder/tester feels that his/her accomplishments are now totally hidden and unrecognized. This seems to me to be a failure by the SM/PO to adequately get recognition for the team’s work or (more probably) that the company’s management has no understanding of what Scrum really is/does now that its being used. This person was happy before because he/she got recognition, not necessarily because he was the cowboy riding to the rescue when something went wrong, or was a loner or maverick. Most likely this person is just a normal Joe/Jane that got job satisfaction from being patted on the back every once in a while. Who doesn’t want credit for something they feel they’ve done well on? Are we saying that Scrum is supposed to be completely without individual recognition? To use the sports analogy someone else posted in here, yes I’m a New York Yankee and proud of it. Does that mean I refuse the MVP award when its given to me? Or that my league leading Home Runs stats don’t’ matter? I don’t think so.

                                     

                                    To me, again, this situation sounds much more like the SM/PO not living up to their end of the bargain and showing management ‘my scrum team did this, with this result, at this cost’. So let’s give them some credit. If that were done correctly, this person would probably get the fulfillment they’re seeking (IMHO).

                                     

                                    Jerry O

                                     

                                       

                                     

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