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Re: Scrum // Respect

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  • aacockburn
    ... We got into this discussion because you were saying the PO can or should dictate the sequence in which sprint backlog items get done. If there R S T W X Z,
    Message 1 of 224 , Oct 31, 2008
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      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hudson" <phudson@...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > >> What if the temperature now doesn't rise enough to complete
      > >> the painting? Wouldn't you like to have completed it first?
      >
      > >Nope. Don't care if it's done first. That's overconstraining.
      > > Just want it done in time. That's sufficient.
      >
      >
      >
      > Sorry, ambiguous English by me. I meant "Wouldn't you like to
      > have completed it beforehand?" not "Wouldn't you like to have
      > had it completed as the first thing done?"

      We got into this discussion because you were saying the PO can
      or should dictate the sequence in which sprint backlog items
      get done. If there R S T W X Z, and W is in the "must haves", the
      PO can or should say to implement them in order W X Z T R S.
      I'm busy disagreeing with that.

      So when you say "wouldn't you like to have it completed
      beforehand?", I hear you agreeing with me - it's fine for the
      development team to decide the order to deploy them in, so long
      as W is assured to come out in time.

      But when you say, "Wouldn't you like it completed as the first
      thing done?", I hear you disagreeing with me and I disagree back -
      No, I really don't care if it's the first thing done or not,
      so long as it's done in time.

      In other words, for me, there is an enormous difference between
      those two phrasings - they aren't close synonyms to my eyes, they
      are dramatically opposed.

      Bearing that in mind, what is it you would like to assert?
      Either we'll find that we really disagree, or we'll find we
      agree but have been running into a word clash.

      p.s. this reminds me a bit of the difference between people who
      like to get to the airport early and those who like to catch the
      door just before it closes. Having a discussion about "getting to
      the airport on time" with these two people leads in different
      directions!

      Alistair
    • Doug Swartz
      ... XP differs from kanban in many of the same ways as Scrum. It is batch pull, not continuous pull. Instead of a sprint, XP calls it an iteration. In XP, like
      Message 224 of 224 , Nov 19, 2008
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        Wednesday, November 19, 2008, 3:05:08 PM, Dillon Weyer wrote:

        > In this case how is XP different to Kanban then?

        XP differs from kanban in many of the same ways as Scrum. It
        is batch pull, not continuous pull. Instead of a sprint, XP
        calls it an iteration. In XP, like scrum, but not kanban, each
        story has a high level estimate attached to it during release
        planning, which is similar, but somewhat different from
        backlog grooming in scrum.

        Doug Swartz


        > aacockburn wrote

        > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com> , Graeme Matthew <scrum@...>
        > wrote:
        >>
        >> Whats the difference between a product backlog and kanban they both
        > act
        >> as signaling system to trigger action?
        >>
        >>

        > The kanban is continuous pull, the backlog is batch pull.

        > With the backlogs, each month you *promise* how much you'll do, and
        > pull a *batch* of items from the product to the sprint backlog.
        > You're now locked.

        > With kanban, you pull directly from the product backlog to the
        > work list, one at a time. There is no work estimate attached to the
        > item - you just work on it till you're done, then pull the next.
        > Some teams put size limits on the work list, so you can't work on
        > more than e.g. 5 items at a time.

        > That's quite a difference.

        > Alistair
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