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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum -- for families....

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  • Joseph Pelrine
    Mike I just organized moving house - and office - as a Scrum project. Does that count? Cheers -- Joseph Pelrine [ | ] MetaProg GmbH Email:
    Message 1 of 12 , May 3, 2004
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      Mike

      I just organized moving house - and office - as a Scrum project. Does that
      count?

      Cheers

      --
      Joseph Pelrine [ | ]
      MetaProg GmbH
      Email: jpelrine@...
      Web: http://www.metaprog.com
      Blog: http://www.metaprog.com/blogs

      "If you don't live on the edge, you're taking up too much space" -
      Doug Robinson
    • Alex Jouravlev
      Mike, Like the idea Good luck, and keep us posted. Cheers Alex ... From: Michael Vizdos [mailto:michael.vizdos@ronin-intl.com] Sent: Tuesday, 4 May 2004 7:06
      Message 2 of 12 , May 3, 2004
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        Mike,

        Like the idea

        Good luck, and keep us posted.

        Cheers
        Alex

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Michael Vizdos [mailto:michael.vizdos@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, 4 May 2004 7:06 AM
        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum -- for families....


        Hi all.

        I have an idea I'd like to share with this group.

        Don't know if this is just for laughs (I hope not) but....

        Our family of four (me, my wife, and two kids -- they are young) is always
        struggling with "life" activities. Feels like sometimes we are spinning our
        wheels. Sounds familiar on some IT projects I have been involved with.
        This is probably the norm for most families out there.

        My wife has tried different "systems" in the past to try to get things
        planned in life -- but usually they are only about one person in the family
        doing something, not the family as a "team."

        See where I am going with this???

        As a CSM, my wife asked me about what I do with Scrum [heh, we DO
        communicate!] and she said, "Hey, let's try that with life at home." I
        really think this was her way of getting me more involved in trying to plan
        our crazy lives (smile). So here it is.

        Is there anyone out there that has something documented like this
        specifically for use by families? I know, I know, I know..... Ken and
        others say this can be applied outside of our IT work lives. Is anyone
        already doing this?

        If not, let this thread serve two functions:

        1) I am going to try this at home. Um... Should say "we". Outside of work.
        Using non-IT or technical terms.

        2) I will document stuff as it happens. Maybe, just maybe, I can use this
        as a springboard for my next book (once I finish the book on the EUP
        (www.enterpriseunifiedprocess.info) that I am co-authoring). This may then
        help spread Scrum to the mainstream... Or is that too lofty of a goal?

        Dumb idea? Already "taken" -- if so, where can I build on it?

        Anyone interested in joining me on this?

        Thank you,

        - mike v.




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      • Taru Jain
        This is a coincident. Last weekend, my boyfriend and I were talking about similar idea. We were thinking to have a Product Backlog . This will consists of all
        Message 3 of 12 , May 3, 2004
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          This is a coincident. Last weekend, my boyfriend and I
          were talking about similar idea.

          We were thinking to have a "Product Backlog". This
          will consists of all the things that we really want to
          do/fix :-) in next couple years.... And whenever we
          come up with anything new, we will add it to our
          Product Backlog.

          We were thinking to have a "Sprint Backlog" to focus
          on near future, like 1-2 month from now.

          We will both be the owner. Now the question is who
          gets to be the Scrum Master? I would say we can take
          turn :-)

          We were actually discussing to mix Scrum and XP, as we
          think the 4 values of XP are good to follow not just
          in a software project, but also in real life.

          So, Michael, I will be interested in working with you
          on this.

          Taru
          --- Michael Vizdos <michael.vizdos@...>
          wrote:
          > Hi all.
          >
          > I have an idea I'd like to share with this group.
          >
          > Don't know if this is just for laughs (I hope not)
          > but....
          >
          > Our family of four (me, my wife, and two kids --
          > they are young) is always
          > struggling with "life" activities. Feels like
          > sometimes we are spinning our
          > wheels. Sounds familiar on some IT projects I have
          > been involved with.
          > This is probably the norm for most families out
          > there.
          >
          > My wife has tried different "systems" in the past to
          > try to get things
          > planned in life -- but usually they are only about
          > one person in the family
          > doing something, not the family as a "team."
          >
          > See where I am going with this???
          >
          > As a CSM, my wife asked me about what I do with
          > Scrum [heh, we DO
          > communicate!] and she said, "Hey, let's try that
          > with life at home." I
          > really think this was her way of getting me more
          > involved in trying to plan
          > our crazy lives (smile). So here it is.
          >
          > Is there anyone out there that has something
          > documented like this
          > specifically for use by families? I know, I know, I
          > know..... Ken and
          > others say this can be applied outside of our IT
          > work lives. Is anyone
          > already doing this?
          >
          > If not, let this thread serve two functions:
          >
          > 1) I am going to try this at home. Um... Should say
          > "we". Outside of work.
          > Using non-IT or technical terms.
          >
          > 2) I will document stuff as it happens. Maybe, just
          > maybe, I can use this
          > as a springboard for my next book (once I finish the
          > book on the EUP
          > (www.enterpriseunifiedprocess.info) that I am
          > co-authoring). This may then
          > help spread Scrum to the mainstream... Or is that
          > too lofty of a goal?
          >
          > Dumb idea? Already "taken" -- if so, where can I
          > build on it?
          >
          > Anyone interested in joining me on this?
          >
          > Thank you,
          >
          > - mike v.
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to:
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          >
          >





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        • Michael Dowling
          You know you (& your family) need a vacation when... ... -Michael ... -- Michael Dowling mdowling@planetoutinc.com PlanetOut Inc. 415.834.6500 main |
          Message 4 of 12 , May 3, 2004
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            You know you (& your family) need a vacation when...

            :-D

            -Michael

            Taru Jain wrote:

            > This is a coincident. Last weekend, my boyfriend and I
            > were talking about similar idea.
            >
            > We were thinking to have a "Product Backlog". This
            > will consists of all the things that we really want to
            > do/fix :-) in next couple years.... And whenever we
            > come up with anything new, we will add it to our
            > Product Backlog.
            >
            > We were thinking to have a "Sprint Backlog" to focus
            > on near future, like 1-2 month from now.
            >
            > We will both be the owner. Now the question is who
            > gets to be the Scrum Master? I would say we can take
            > turn :-)
            >
            > We were actually discussing to mix Scrum and XP, as we
            > think the 4 values of XP are good to follow not just
            > in a software project, but also in real life.
            >
            > So, Michael, I will be interested in working with you
            > on this.
            >
            > Taru
            > --- Michael Vizdos <michael.vizdos@...>
            > wrote:
            >
            >>Hi all.
            >>
            >>I have an idea I'd like to share with this group.
            >>
            >>Don't know if this is just for laughs (I hope not)
            >>but....
            >>
            >>Our family of four (me, my wife, and two kids --
            >>they are young) is always
            >>struggling with "life" activities. Feels like
            >>sometimes we are spinning our
            >>wheels. Sounds familiar on some IT projects I have
            >>been involved with.
            >>This is probably the norm for most families out
            >>there.
            >>
            >>My wife has tried different "systems" in the past to
            >>try to get things
            >>planned in life -- but usually they are only about
            >>one person in the family
            >>doing something, not the family as a "team."
            >>
            >>See where I am going with this???
            >>
            >>As a CSM, my wife asked me about what I do with
            >>Scrum [heh, we DO
            >>communicate!] and she said, "Hey, let's try that
            >>with life at home." I
            >>really think this was her way of getting me more
            >>involved in trying to plan
            >>our crazy lives (smile). So here it is.
            >>
            >>Is there anyone out there that has something
            >>documented like this
            >>specifically for use by families? I know, I know, I
            >>know..... Ken and
            >>others say this can be applied outside of our IT
            >>work lives. Is anyone
            >>already doing this?
            >>
            >>If not, let this thread serve two functions:
            >>
            >>1) I am going to try this at home. Um... Should say
            >>"we". Outside of work.
            >>Using non-IT or technical terms.
            >>
            >>2) I will document stuff as it happens. Maybe, just
            >>maybe, I can use this
            >>as a springboard for my next book (once I finish the
            >>book on the EUP
            >>(www.enterpriseunifiedprocess.info) that I am
            >>co-authoring). This may then
            >>help spread Scrum to the mainstream... Or is that
            >>too lofty of a goal?
            >>
            >>Dumb idea? Already "taken" -- if so, where can I
            >>build on it?
            >>
            >>Anyone interested in joining me on this?
            >>
            >>Thank you,
            >>
            >>- mike v.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >>
            >>To Post a message, send it to:
            >>scrumdevelopment@...
            >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            >>scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
            >>Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >> scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
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            >
            >
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            >

            --

            Michael Dowling
            mdowling@...
            PlanetOut Inc.
            415.834.6500 main | 415.834.6306 direct | 415.834.6502 fax
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          • Mike Beedle
            Michael: .... I can envision your wife and you discussing if the kids are practicing enough self-organization specially when it is time to go to bed; or
            Message 5 of 12 , May 3, 2004
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              Message
               
              Michael:
               
              ....  I can envision your wife and you discussing if the kids are practicing
              enough self-organization specially when it is time to go to bed; or practicing 
              enough "BA" i.e. sharing, as they play with their toys or while at the dinner
              table.
               
              Mine *teach* me self-organization -- they self-organize all right, but only to 
              satisfy their own goals, hardly ever "ours".  Also, they both believe and *really are*
              the Product Owners (specially my 3-year old).  As he says, he is:
               
                  the boss of the world
               
              My wife and I work for them.  She is the ScrumMaster, and I guess I am the
              only "developer" -- I get to do all the "dirty jobs":
               
                  take out the trash
                  mown the lawn
                  clean the attic
                  etc.
               
              mb
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Michael Vizdos [mailto:michael.vizdos@...]
              Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 4:06 PM
              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum -- for families....

              Hi all.

              I have an idea I'd like to share with this group. 

              Don't know if this is just for laughs (I hope not) but....

              Our family of four (me, my wife, and two kids -- they are young) is always
              struggling with "life" activities.  Feels like sometimes we are spinning our
              wheels.  Sounds familiar on some IT projects I have been involved with.
              This is probably the norm for most families out there.

              My wife has tried different "systems" in the past to try to get things
              planned in life -- but usually they are only about one person in the family
              doing something, not the family as a "team."

              See where I am going with this???

              As a CSM, my wife asked me about what I do with Scrum [heh, we DO
              communicate!] and she said, "Hey, let's try that with life at home."  I
              really think this was her way of getting me more involved in trying to plan
              our crazy lives (smile).  So here it is.

              Is there anyone out there that has something documented like this
              specifically for use by families?  I know, I know, I know..... Ken and
              others say this can be applied outside of our IT work lives.  Is anyone
              already doing this?

              If not, let this thread serve two functions:

              1) I am going to try this at home.  Um... Should say "we".  Outside of work.
              Using non-IT or technical terms.

              2) I will document stuff as it happens.  Maybe, just maybe, I can use this
              as a springboard for my next book (once I finish the book on the EUP
              (www.enterpriseunifiedprocess.info) that I am co-authoring).  This may then
              help spread Scrum to the mainstream... Or is that too lofty of a goal?

              Dumb idea?  Already "taken" -- if so, where can I build on it?

              Anyone interested in joining me on this?

              Thank you,

              - mike v.



              To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...



            • Mike Cohn
              I picture my 8-year-old daughter yelling at me, Who died and made you Product Owner?! --Mike Cohn, Certified ScrumMaster Author of User Stories Applied for
              Message 6 of 12 , May 3, 2004
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                Message

                I picture my 8-year-old daughter yelling at me, “Who died and made you Product Owner?!”

                 

                --Mike Cohn, Certified ScrumMaster

                Author of User Stories Applied for Agile Software Development

                www.userstories.com

                www.mountaingoatsoftware.com


                From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
                Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 4:16 PM
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum -- for families....

                 

                 

                Michael:

                 

                ....  I can envision your wife and you discussing if the kids are practicing

                enough self-organization specially when it is time to go to bed; or practicing 

                enough "BA" i.e. sharing, as they play with their toys or while at the dinner

                table.

                 

                Mine *teach* me self-organization -- they self-organize all right, but only to 

                satisfy their own goals, hardly ever "ours".  Also, they both believe and *really are*

                the Product Owners (specially my 3-year old).  As he says, he is:

                 

                    the boss of the world

                 

                My wife and I work for them.  She is the ScrumMaster, and I guess I am the
                only "developer" -- I get to do all the "dirty jobs":

                 

                    take out the trash

                    mown the lawn

                    clean the attic

                    etc.

                 

                mb

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Michael Vizdos [mailto: michael.vizdos@... ]
                Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 4:06 PM
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum -- for families....

                Hi all.

                I have an idea I'd like to share with this group. 

                Don't know if this is just for laughs (I hope not) but....

                Our family of four (me, my wife, and two kids -- they are young) is always
                struggling with "life" activities.  Feels like sometimes we are spinning our
                wheels.  Sounds familiar on some IT projects I have been involved with.
                This is probably the norm for most families out there.

                My wife has tried different "systems" in the past to try to get things
                planned in life -- but usually they are only about one person in the family
                doing something, not the family as a "team."

                See where I am going with this???

                As a CSM, my wife asked me about what I do with Scrum [heh, we DO
                communicate!] and she said, "Hey, let's try that with life at home."  I
                really think this was her way of getting me more involved in trying to plan
                our crazy lives (smile).  So here it is.

                Is there anyone out there that has something documented like this
                specifically for use by families?  I know, I know, I know..... Ken and
                others say this can be applied outside of our IT work lives.  Is anyone
                already doing this?

                If not, let this thread serve two functions:

                1) I am going to try this at home.  Um... Should say "we".  Outside of work.
                Using non-IT or technical terms.

                2) I will document stuff as it happens.  Maybe, just maybe, I can use this
                as a springboard for my next book (once I finish the book on the EUP
                (www.enterpriseunifiedprocess.info) that I am co-authoring).  This may then
                help spread Scrum to the mainstream... Or is that too lofty of a goal?

                Dumb idea?  Already "taken" -- if so, where can I build on it?

                Anyone interested in joining me on this?

                Thank you,

                - mike v.



                To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
                To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...





                To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
                To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...




              • Deb
                Better yet... what will be the product? The task of determining the family s goals, to the satisfaction of all participants, might be a useful exercise in
                Message 7 of 12 , May 3, 2004
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                  Better yet... what will be the product?
                  The task of determining the family's goals, to the satisfaction of
                  all participants, might be a useful exercise in itself (requiring
                  each to understand the values and goals of the others.)

                  Hmmm... this does pose a conundrum (also noted by some of the other
                  commenters) - does the whole family "own" the backlog/deliverables?

                  Does this ever happen in business - that the product owner and the
                  development team are the same? I know in new product development it
                  must be tempting sometimes, but it strikes me as a temptation to be
                  avoided, at least in business. The differentiation in roles and
                  responsibilities between Owner and Developers creates checks and
                  balances in the work.

                  --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Cohn" <mike@m...>
                  wrote:
                  > Michael--
                  > Who will be the ScrumMaster? You or your wife? ;)
                  >
                • w6rabbit
                  ... is always ... We consist of me, my wife, and our nine kids, ages 11 to 1. So I can relate to strugling with life and activities. ... We involve our 7
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 6, 2004
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                    --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Vizdos"
                    <michael.vizdos@r...> wrote:
                    > Hi all.
                    >
                    > Our family of four (me, my wife, and two kids -- they are young)
                    is always
                    > struggling with "life" activities.
                    >
                    "We" consist of me, my wife, and our nine kids, ages 11 to 1.
                    So I can relate to strugling with life and activities.

                    > As a CSM, my wife asked me about what I do with Scrum
                    > and she said, "Hey, let's try that with life at home."
                    >
                    > Is there anyone out there that has something documented like this
                    > specifically for use by families? Is anyone
                    > already doing this?
                    >
                    We involve our 7 oldest, ages 11 to 3. The youngest doesn't
                    actually contribute much that's meaningful. She mostly says
                    things that she would have done anyway, like "eat lunch."
                    But the other 6 do set meaningful goals for their days.

                    > If not, let this thread serve two functions:
                    >
                    > 1) I am going to try this at home.
                    >
                    > 2) I will document stuff as it happens. This may then
                    > help spread Scrum to the mainstream...
                    > Or is that too lofty of a goal?
                    >
                    I strongly believe that software development is
                    a team sport. And Scrum really helps us achieve that.
                    I think family should be even more of a team, and
                    I think that scrum, and improved communication
                    can help there too.

                    > Anyone interested in joining me on this?
                    >
                    Some problems we've had are:
                    a) Some of the kids don't remember this morning, what
                    goals they set yesterday morning or remember very clearly
                    how they did. So we have the goal setting in the morning
                    and the review in the evening.

                    b) I talked about them doing this for months, but in
                    practice, it doesn't happen yet unless I'm there and
                    call everybody in.
                    This means that the scrum is early in the morning
                    before I leave for work and before they are really
                    awake.

                    c) We don't have sprints, yet. I expect we will,
                    but I'm introducing one thing at a time.

                    Feedback:
                    As a result, I'm seeing them take ownership of things
                    that I'have wanted them to all along.

                    I heard that the other night, when I had an evening
                    meeting, my 10-year old son spoke up at supper,
                    "Well, it looks like we're not going to have a scrum
                    with daddy, but today I ..."
                    on his own initiative.

                    Good luck Mike,
                    Brad.
                  • John Recktenwald
                    It seems to me that Scrum is an application of constructive human activity to software engineering. It may be in a position now to give back to human activity.
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 6, 2004
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                      It seems to me that Scrum is an application of constructive human
                      activity to software engineering. It may be in a position now to give
                      back to human activity.

                      I have a life mission statement which is like the project plan or
                      architectural and business vision and doesn't change very often. I
                      adopted this from 'The 7 habits of highly effective people' around 1996/1997

                      I go on a retreat twice a year to work on my life goals which I break
                      down into short term and long term which establishes a sprint backlog
                      and a product backlog. I've been doing this for at least 15 years and
                      don't remember where I picked up the idea.

                      A number of self help people have written about the advisability of
                      establishing a do list for the day and setting one thing that you
                      definitely will do that day so you will have a feeling of some progress
                      or accomplishment. The daily sprint. I'm a little weak in this area.

                      So, yes, I would say this is well documented but you have to pick the
                      bits and pieces from a lot of sources. Steven Covey, annoying at times,
                      is probably a good place to start. He has a book for families but I
                      haven't read it.

                      John Recktenwald



                      w6rabbit wrote:

                      > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Vizdos"
                      > <michael.vizdos@r...> wrote:
                      > > Hi all.
                      > >
                      > > Our family of four (me, my wife, and two kids -- they are young)
                      > is always
                      > > struggling with "life" activities.
                      > >
                      > "We" consist of me, my wife, and our nine kids, ages 11 to 1.
                      > So I can relate to strugling with life and activities.
                      >
                      > > As a CSM, my wife asked me about what I do with Scrum
                      > > and she said, "Hey, let's try that with life at home."
                      > >
                      > > Is there anyone out there that has something documented like this
                      > > specifically for use by families? Is anyone
                      > > already doing this?
                      > >
                      > We involve our 7 oldest, ages 11 to 3. The youngest doesn't
                      > actually contribute much that's meaningful. She mostly says
                      > things that she would have done anyway, like "eat lunch."
                      > But the other 6 do set meaningful goals for their days.
                      >
                      > > If not, let this thread serve two functions:
                      > >
                      > > 1) I am going to try this at home.
                      > >
                      > > 2) I will document stuff as it happens. This may then
                      > > help spread Scrum to the mainstream...
                      > > Or is that too lofty of a goal?
                      > >
                      > I strongly believe that software development is
                      > a team sport. And Scrum really helps us achieve that.
                      > I think family should be even more of a team, and
                      > I think that scrum, and improved communication
                      > can help there too.
                      >
                      > > Anyone interested in joining me on this?
                      > >
                      > Some problems we've had are:
                      > a) Some of the kids don't remember this morning, what
                      > goals they set yesterday morning or remember very clearly
                      > how they did. So we have the goal setting in the morning
                      > and the review in the evening.
                      >
                      > b) I talked about them doing this for months, but in
                      > practice, it doesn't happen yet unless I'm there and
                      > call everybody in.
                      > This means that the scrum is early in the morning
                      > before I leave for work and before they are really
                      > awake.
                      >
                      > c) We don't have sprints, yet. I expect we will,
                      > but I'm introducing one thing at a time.
                      >
                      > Feedback:
                      > As a result, I'm seeing them take ownership of things
                      > that I'have wanted them to all along.
                      >
                      > I heard that the other night, when I had an evening
                      > meeting, my 10-year old son spoke up at supper,
                      > "Well, it looks like we're not going to have a scrum
                      > with daddy, but today I ..."
                      > on his own initiative.
                      >
                      > Good luck Mike,
                      > Brad.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
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