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Re: Outsource Scrum

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  • davidwebb000
    Having been a consumer and a provider of nearshore agile development services I usually recommend the product owner gets in front of the development team at
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 2, 2008
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      Having been a consumer and a provider of nearshore agile development services I
      usually recommend the product owner gets in front of the development team at least one
      week in 12. A well performing agile development team can produce a lot of code that is
      not required without the constant steering of the product owner. That is very difficult to do
      when the PO does not have a rapport with the team. I have always found in these
      circumstances that for your $2k of travel you get a great return on your investment.
      Regards
      David
      www.exigenservices.com
      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Mike Vizdos <mvizdos@...> wrote:
      >
      > Time for you to hop on a plane?
      >
      > Thank you,
      >
      > - Mike Vizdos
      > Vizdos Enterprises, LLC
      >
      > Contact Information
      >
      > Web: www.implementingscrum.com
      > www.michaelvizdos.com
      >
      > AOL IM: MikeV Work
      > Twitter: mvizdos
      > Skype: mvizdos
      > Phone: +1 619-709-1716
      > Fax: +1 425-675-7296
      >
      > PS: Come to one of my workshops. Visit michaelvizdos.com/enroll.
      >
      > PPS: Visit implementingscrum.com/subscribe. Receive 2 FREE videos.
      >
      > On Sep 26, 2008, at 2:25 PM, wfc_85283 wrote:
      >
      > > I work for a small company. Prior to my arrival, the owner contracted
      > > our development to a company in Mexico. I was hired to manage the
      > > project. The outfit in Mexico informed me that they develop using the
      > > Scrum framework. I am new to Scrum, I've spent the last 4 weeks
      > > educating myself on Scrum.
      > >
      > > I have the responsibility to ensure that the system meets requirements
      > > and that the final product is a system that is maintainable and one
      > > that can grow with the changing needs of the business.
      > >
      > > I am the Product Owner. I have given the folks in Mexico a
      > > Waterfall-ish requirements document and the Product Backlog containing
      > > the user stories.
      > >
      > > I'm concerned because the outsourcing firm has shown little interest
      > > in getting to know our business model. I have received no questions
      > > or feedback on the documents that I gave them. They have indicated
      > > that although I am the Product Owner, I will not be involved in the
      > > Sprint Planning meeting, the Sprint Review nor will I be invited to
      > > the daily Scrums.
      > >
      > > I thought Scrum called for more communication, not less. I thought
      > > Scrum called for a Team that possessed a strong business knowledge.
      > >
      > > Our first Sprint is scheduled to start on Monday. I'm really at a
      > > loss as to how to continue. It seems obvious to me that they are
      > > clueless but being new to Scrum I'm not so sure.
      > >
      > > All comments are welcome. Thanks in advance for your input.
      > >
      > > Bill
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
      I find this to be hard to fathom A well performing agile development team can produce a lot of code that is not required without the constant steering of the
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 3, 2008
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        I find this to be hard to fathom
        "A well performing agile development team can produce a lot of code that is not required without the constant steering of the product owner."
        First if the product owner is not a part of the team how do they know what done is. Second any team that is good at scrum stops building and goes surfing once they have built to the PO definition of DONE.
        You might reconsider their level of skill and self discipline.

        Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


        From: "davidwebb000" <david.webb@...>
        Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:42:19 -0000
        To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Outsource Scrum

        Having been a consumer and a provider of nearshore agile development services I
        usually recommend the product owner gets in front of the development team at least one
        week in 12. A well performing agile development team can produce a lot of code that is
        not required without the constant steering of the product owner. That is very difficult to do
        when the PO does not have a rapport with the team. I have always found in these
        circumstances that for your $2k of travel you get a great return on your investment.
        Regards
        David
        www.exigenservices. com

        --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, Mike Vizdos <mvizdos@... > wrote:
        >
        > Time for you to hop on a plane?
        >
        > Thank you,
        >
        > - Mike Vizdos
        > Vizdos Enterprises, LLC
        >
        > Contact Information
        >
        > Web: www.implementingscr um.com
        > www.michaelvizdos. com
        >
        > AOL IM: MikeV Work
        > Twitter: mvizdos
        > Skype: mvizdos
        > Phone: +1 619-709-1716
        > Fax: +1 425-675-7296
        >
        > PS: Come to one of my workshops. Visit michaelvizdos. com/enroll.
        >
        > PPS: Visit implementingscrum. com/subscribe. Receive 2 FREE videos.
        >
        > On Sep 26, 2008, at 2:25 PM, wfc_85283 wrote:
        >
        > > I work for a small company. Prior to my arrival, the owner contracted
        > > our development to a company in Mexico. I was hired to manage the
        > > project. The outfit in Mexico informed me that they develop using the
        > > Scrum framework. I am new to Scrum, I've spent the last 4 weeks
        > > educating myself on Scrum.
        > >
        > > I have the responsibility to ensure that the system meets requirements
        > > and that the final product is a system that is maintainable and one
        > > that can grow with the changing needs of the business.
        > >
        > > I am the Product Owner. I have given the folks in Mexico a
        > > Waterfall-ish requirements document and the Product Backlog containing
        > > the user stories.
        > >
        > > I'm concerned because the outsourcing firm has shown little interest
        > > in getting to know our business model. I have received no questions
        > > or feedback on the documents that I gave them. They have indicated
        > > that although I am the Product Owner, I will not be involved in the
        > > Sprint Planning meeting, the Sprint Review nor will I be invited to
        > > the daily Scrums.
        > >
        > > I thought Scrum called for more communication, not less. I thought
        > > Scrum called for a Team that possessed a strong business knowledge.
        > >
        > > Our first Sprint is scheduled to start on Monday. I'm really at a
        > > loss as to how to continue. It seems obvious to me that they are
        > > clueless but being new to Scrum I'm not so sure.
        > >
        > > All comments are welcome. Thanks in advance for your input.
        > >
        > > Bill
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >

      • andybrandt_dot_net
        Bill! Lots of good advice here already, but I feel I can contribute to the discussion as I run a company that delivers Scrum-based software development
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 6, 2008
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          Bill!

          Lots of good advice here already, but I feel I can contribute to the
          discussion as I run a company that delivers Scrum-based software
          development services, so I see it from your Mexican partner's POV.
          Now, what they do is clearly wrong. You as a PO should be much more
          involved. You should be at least on Sprint Planning and Review, you
          should have access to the sprint and project backlogs, be able to
          inspect burndown and talk to the team whenever there is a need. Them
          not coming back with questions is especially worrying.

          It would be advisable if you would also have access to some kind of
          test system where you could follow what is being built.

          Now, all this is of course more difficult when working over a
          distance. We have the same problem with our clients - we meet with
          them sometimes, but normally we have to use technology to ensure their
          adequate engagement in the project. So we came up with a standard set
          of tools we give our clients to encourage them to be as much involved
          as possible.

          That includes:
          - access to project code repository – clients can view or download the
          repository at any moment,
          - access to project bug tracking & Wiki pages,
          - access to test system – it is the working version of the system
          under development with test data, automatically updated from the
          repository many times a day.
          - access Scrum tracking software – project backlog, sprint backlog,
          tasks, burndown are kept there, client is encourage to manage project
          backlog himself,
          - a Skype based project chat up at all times with whole team on,
          - ideally listening in to Daily Scrum + short discussion after if
          there are any points to be covered.

          All of this is implementable, especially as this project is only
          beginning. You should insist that your Mexican partner provides at
          least the level of openness and communication I'm writing about. As
          things stand now best you can do is fly there and try to get all I
          suggest above. And get to know those people - it really helps if you
          explain them face to face what you want and why you want it. I'm sure
          they want the project to be a success - their livelihood depends on it.

          Best regards,
          Andy Brandt

          Code Sprinters



          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "wfc_85283" <garvinpromo@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I work for a small company. Prior to my arrival, the owner contracted
          > our development to a company in Mexico. I was hired to manage the
          > project. The outfit in Mexico informed me that they develop using the
          > Scrum framework. I am new to Scrum, I've spent the last 4 weeks
          > educating myself on Scrum.
          >
          > I have the responsibility to ensure that the system meets requirements
          > and that the final product is a system that is maintainable and one
          > that can grow with the changing needs of the business.
          >
          > I am the Product Owner. I have given the folks in Mexico a
          > Waterfall-ish requirements document and the Product Backlog containing
          > the user stories.
          >
          > I'm concerned because the outsourcing firm has shown little interest
          > in getting to know our business model. I have received no questions
          > or feedback on the documents that I gave them. They have indicated
          > that although I am the Product Owner, I will not be involved in the
          > Sprint Planning meeting, the Sprint Review nor will I be invited to
          > the daily Scrums.
          >
          > I thought Scrum called for more communication, not less. I thought
          > Scrum called for a Team that possessed a strong business knowledge.
          >
          > Our first Sprint is scheduled to start on Monday. I'm really at a
          > loss as to how to continue. It seems obvious to me that they are
          > clueless but being new to Scrum I'm not so sure.
          >
          > All comments are welcome. Thanks in advance for your input.
          >
          > Bill
          >
        • chuckspublicprofile
          Bill, one more vote that you re on the right track. Get down there to Mexico and find out for yourself. Doing anything else is a disaster waiting to happen,
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 6, 2008
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            Bill, one more vote that you're on the right track.

            Get down there to Mexico and find out for yourself. Doing anything
            else is a disaster waiting to happen, IMO. I also like the "hire a
            coach" for a couple of days suggestion.

            Due to your recent introduction to Scrum, please feel free to use this
            list as a resource to continue to investigate your issue.

            Charles Bradley
            CSM



            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "andybrandt_dot_net"
            <andy@...> wrote:
            >
            > Bill!
            >
            > Lots of good advice here already, but I feel I can contribute to the
            > discussion as I run a company that delivers Scrum-based software
            > development services, so I see it from your Mexican partner's POV.
            > Now, what they do is clearly wrong. You as a PO should be much more
            > involved. You should be at least on Sprint Planning and Review, you
            > should have access to the sprint and project backlogs, be able to
            > inspect burndown and talk to the team whenever there is a need. Them
            > not coming back with questions is especially worrying.
            >
            > It would be advisable if you would also have access to some kind of
            > test system where you could follow what is being built.
            >
            > Now, all this is of course more difficult when working over a
            > distance. We have the same problem with our clients - we meet with
            > them sometimes, but normally we have to use technology to ensure their
            > adequate engagement in the project. So we came up with a standard set
            > of tools we give our clients to encourage them to be as much involved
            > as possible.
            >
            > That includes:
            > - access to project code repository – clients can view or download the
            > repository at any moment,
            > - access to project bug tracking & Wiki pages,
            > - access to test system – it is the working version of the system
            > under development with test data, automatically updated from the
            > repository many times a day.
            > - access Scrum tracking software – project backlog, sprint backlog,
            > tasks, burndown are kept there, client is encourage to manage project
            > backlog himself,
            > - a Skype based project chat up at all times with whole team on,
            > - ideally listening in to Daily Scrum + short discussion after if
            > there are any points to be covered.
            >
            > All of this is implementable, especially as this project is only
            > beginning. You should insist that your Mexican partner provides at
            > least the level of openness and communication I'm writing about. As
            > things stand now best you can do is fly there and try to get all I
            > suggest above. And get to know those people - it really helps if you
            > explain them face to face what you want and why you want it. I'm sure
            > they want the project to be a success - their livelihood depends on it.
            >
            > Best regards,
            > Andy Brandt
            >
            > Code Sprinters
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "wfc_85283" <garvinpromo@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > I work for a small company. Prior to my arrival, the owner contracted
            > > our development to a company in Mexico. I was hired to manage the
            > > project. The outfit in Mexico informed me that they develop using the
            > > Scrum framework. I am new to Scrum, I've spent the last 4 weeks
            > > educating myself on Scrum.
            > >
            > > I have the responsibility to ensure that the system meets requirements
            > > and that the final product is a system that is maintainable and one
            > > that can grow with the changing needs of the business.
            > >
            > > I am the Product Owner. I have given the folks in Mexico a
            > > Waterfall-ish requirements document and the Product Backlog containing
            > > the user stories.
            > >
            > > I'm concerned because the outsourcing firm has shown little interest
            > > in getting to know our business model. I have received no questions
            > > or feedback on the documents that I gave them. They have indicated
            > > that although I am the Product Owner, I will not be involved in the
            > > Sprint Planning meeting, the Sprint Review nor will I be invited to
            > > the daily Scrums.
            > >
            > > I thought Scrum called for more communication, not less. I thought
            > > Scrum called for a Team that possessed a strong business knowledge.
            > >
            > > Our first Sprint is scheduled to start on Monday. I'm really at a
            > > loss as to how to continue. It seems obvious to me that they are
            > > clueless but being new to Scrum I'm not so sure.
            > >
            > > All comments are welcome. Thanks in advance for your input.
            > >
            > > Bill
            > >
            >
          • Vance, Terrie
            I would like to know how Configuration Management fits into Scrum Development. I am tracking what backlog task are being worked on, what task are complete,
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 7, 2008
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              I would like to know how Configuration Management fits into Scrum Development.  I am tracking what backlog task are being worked on, what task are complete, what task will be worked on in future iterations.

               

              I would also like to know how to handle defect corrections and change request.  My team feels that these are put on the backlog so they don't need to be identified in our CM Tool.

               

              Please help, I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.  Our "Scrum Master" seems to think that CM does not have a place in Scrum Development.

               

               

            • Mark Levison
              Vance it might be best if you spun this question out into its own thread. Alot more people will read in that way. Cheers Mark Levison
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 7, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Vance it might be best if you spun this question out into its own thread. Alot more people will read in that way.

                Cheers
                Mark Levison

                On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Vance, Terrie <terrie.vance@...> wrote:

                I would like to know how Configuration Management fits into Scrum Development.  I am tracking what backlog task are being worked on, what task are complete, what task will be worked on in future iterations.

                 

                I would also like to know how to handle defect corrections and change request.  My team feels that these are put on the backlog so they don't need to be identified in our CM Tool.

                 

                Please help, I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.  Our "Scrum Master" seems to think that CM does not have a place in Scrum Development.

                 

                 


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