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Re: Application Framework and database design

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  • chuckspublicprofile
    Bill, I concur with all of the previous advice. Let s hope your ScrumMaster is well trained and it would behoove you to build a strong relationship with
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 1, 2008
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      Bill,

      I concur with all of the previous advice.

      Let's hope your ScrumMaster is well trained and it would behoove you
      to build a strong relationship with him/her ASAP, letting them know of
      your non functional requirements (DB scheme
      flexibility/denormalization, etc -- whatever you want to call it) as
      others suggest.

      In the early object days they sometimes said "Design for Reuse" --
      many of us have realized that was way overrated and ended up creating
      a lot of wasted or never(or under) used code. I prefer the term "Mine
      for Reuse" instead, which is probably just another way of saying
      refactoring. As some of the above authors have mentioned, it might
      appear that you'll(your developers) do some refactoring (and it might
      smell like re-work) along the way -- don't let that bother you -- you
      would have to do rework in a waterfall project too, just LOTS more of
      it (esp when you consider that rework in waterfall also means re-test,
      re-acceptance, re-everything!).

      In waterfall projects, to be successful with the big design up front,
      you had to be a crystal ball expert, and we all know if you were, you
      wouldn't be in the software industry! You'd be in Vegas or on late
      night TV!

      Charles Bradley

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, George Dinwiddie <lists@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Bill, you've already gotten some good advice, so I'll just concentrate
      > on this item:
      >
      > wfc_85283 wrote:
      > > Our application incorporates 24 functional areas. It is my
      > > understanding that each Sprint within the Scrum addresses a functional
      > > area or a subset of the stories within a functional area.
      >
      > I'm not completely sure I understand your meaning, but this sounds
      > suspiciously like a phased waterfall approach, to me. It sounds as if
      > you're thinking of working module by module, working to finish each
      > before proceeding to the next.
      >
      > I would suggest that you take a more holistic view, generating an
      entire
      > application, even though it initially does little more than show that
      > it's there. Having all the functional areas represented in the
      > fledgling app will help the developers drive a reasonable first
      approach
      > to the schema and architecture.
      >
      > Then start to flesh out the functions, in business priority order,
      > switching between functional areas as appropriate. These will add
      > elaborations to the schema and architecture, but the need to "rip out
      > and redesign" should be gone.
      >
      > There's an art to seeing how your application can grow in this way.
      > It's a very different point of view than envisioning building it,
      > starting at one end and proceeding to the other. But working in this
      > way provides a lot of benefits. One of the important ones is that you,
      > the Product Owner, can see at the end of first iteration whether it
      > appears that the "walking skeleton" of the application is likely to
      have
      > the right shape to carry the full weight by the end.
      >
      > good luck,
      > George
      >
      > --
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
      > Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
      > Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
    • Eric Deslauriers
      One of the best resources for learning Scrum IMHO, is this book:
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 1, 2008
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        One of the best resources for learning Scrum IMHO, is this book:


        Man, it's getting expensive. Hope they do another printing, I'm running out of copies to give out at work.

        It's got a great, cookbook approach and it's my bible for a lot of things. Yes, even better than the new MS Press book.

        Regards,
        Eric D

        On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:30 AM, wfc_85283 <garvinpromo@...> wrote:

        I'm new to Scrum so please be patient.

        Being an old waterfall guy, I'm accustomed to planning the application
        framework (common objects, inheritance structure, error processing,
        ect.) and designing the database up front.

        To add to the complexity, we are outsourcing the development. I am
        the Product Owner. The Scrum Master and the Team are outsourced and
        do not have strong industry knowledge or a good understanding of our
        day to day operations.

        Our application incorporates 24 functional areas. It is my
        understanding that each Sprint within the Scrum addresses a functional
        area or a subset of the stories within a functional area.

        It sounds to me like we are going to end up with a bunch of objects
        pieced together and a database that is not all that relational. Or as
        each new Sprint is implemented, we will need to rework other functions
        and redesign the database.

        I've got the User Stories for the first Sprint complete and the Team
        wants to get started. Are we missing a step?

        Thanks in advance for your help.

        Bill




        --
        Eric D
        08 K1200S Tricolor (phreowww)
        06 Husqvarna TE610
      • wfc_85283
        ... http://www.amazon.com/Agile-Software-Development-Scrum/dp/0130676349/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222923075&sr=8-2 ... running out ... things. ...
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 2, 2008
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          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Deslauriers"
          <eric.deslauriers@...> wrote:
          >
          > One of the best resources for learning Scrum IMHO, is this book:
          >
          http://www.amazon.com/Agile-Software-Development-Scrum/dp/0130676349/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222923075&sr=8-2
          >
          > http://tinyurl.com/scrumbook
          >
          > Man, it's getting expensive. Hope they do another printing, I'm
          running out
          > of copies to give out at work.
          >
          > It's got a great, cookbook approach and it's my bible for a lot of
          things.
          > Yes, even better than the new MS Press book.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Eric D
          >
          > On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:30 AM, wfc_85283 <garvinpromo@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I'm new to Scrum so please be patient.
          > >
          > > Being an old waterfall guy, I'm accustomed to planning the application
          > > framework (common objects, inheritance structure, error processing,
          > > ect.) and designing the database up front.
          > >
          > > To add to the complexity, we are outsourcing the development. I am
          > > the Product Owner. The Scrum Master and the Team are outsourced and
          > > do not have strong industry knowledge or a good understanding of our
          > > day to day operations.
          > >
          > > Our application incorporates 24 functional areas. It is my
          > > understanding that each Sprint within the Scrum addresses a functional
          > > area or a subset of the stories within a functional area.
          > >
          > > It sounds to me like we are going to end up with a bunch of objects
          > > pieced together and a database that is not all that relational. Or as
          > > each new Sprint is implemented, we will need to rework other functions
          > > and redesign the database.
          > >
          > > I've got the User Stories for the first Sprint complete and the Team
          > > wants to get started. Are we missing a step?
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance for your help.
          > >
          > > Bill
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Eric D
          > 08 K1200S Tricolor (phreowww)
          > 06 Husqvarna TE610
          >
          Eric. I'll get the book. Thanks.
        • chuckspublicprofile
          I ve also found this short book very useful and practical... more of a scrum implementation tips book than a learn scrum book.
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 2, 2008
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            I've also found this short book very useful and practical... more of a
            "scrum implementation tips" book than a "learn scrum" book.

            http://www.amazon.com/Scrum-Trenches-Enterprise-Software-Development/dp/1430322640

            Charles

            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "wfc_85283" <garvinpromo@...> > >
            > > One of the best resources for learning Scrum IMHO, is this book:
            > >
            >
            http://www.amazon.com/Agile-Software-Development-Scrum/dp/0130676349/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222923075&sr=8-2
            > >
            > > http://tinyurl.com/scrumbook
            > >
          • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
            I m sure that Ken is overjoyed to hear his work referred to as a cookbook. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ... From: chuckspublicprofile
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 3, 2008
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              I'm sure that Ken is overjoyed to hear his work referred to as a cookbook.

              Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


              From: "chuckspublicprofile" <chuck-lists2@...>
              Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:23:46 -0000
              To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Application Framework and database design

              I've also found this short book very useful and practical... more of a
              "scrum implementation tips" book than a "learn scrum" book.

              http://www.amazon. com/Scrum- Trenches- Enterprise- Software- Development/ dp/1430322640

              Charles

              --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, "wfc_85283" <garvinpromo@ ...> > >

              > > One of the best resources for learning Scrum IMHO, is this book:
              > >
              >
              http://www.amazon. com/Agile- Software- Development- Scrum/dp/ 0130676349/ ref=pd_bbs_ sr_2?ie=UTF8& s=books&qid= 1222923075& sr=8-2
              > >
              > > http://tinyurl. com/scrumbook
              > >

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