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Re: SCRUM process with other methodologies

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  • Jens Ƙstergaard
    I ve used it before (and *adore* it), but some folks also want ... Basic ... Hi Michael I have had absolutely no problem using excel and find that it works vey
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 6, 2004
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      I've used it before (and *adore* it), but some folks also want
      > to take a look at some other tools (excel just doesn't cut it).
      Basic
      > requirement is that it be as simple as scrum itself.
      >

      Hi Michael

      I have had absolutely no problem using excel and find that it works
      vey well. If a team needs additional material for coordination, they
      figure it out themselves.

      If you sign in and look under files, I have posted an example of a
      sprintlog that we use.

      Jens
    • Reginald Braithwaite-Lee
      ... Whenever possible, I like to use corkboards or whiteboards. I m considering using a projector and a dedicated PC on my next project for things that don t
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 6, 2004
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        --- Mike Cohn <mike@...> wrote:
        > I have successfully used:
        >
        > --cards
        > --a wiki
        > --rows in Excel
        > --TestTrack (a defect tracker, with each story/task entered as a
        > record)

        Whenever possible, I like to use corkboards or whiteboards. I'm
        considering using a projector and a dedicated PC on my next project for
        things that don't work well on paper.

        http://www.braithwaite-lee.com/opinions/cork-board.html

        --
        Reginald Braithwaite-Lee
        http://www.braithwaite-lee.com

        "Even when my proposals are seen as significant improvements, they are
        often rejected on the grounds that they are not intuitive. It is a
        classic Catch-22: The client wants something that is significantly
        superior to the competition. But if it is to be superior, it must be
        different. (Typically, the greater the improvement, the greater the
        difference.) Therefore, it cannot be intuitive, that is, familiar. What
        the client wants is an interface with at most marginal differences from
        current practice... that, somehow, makes a major improvement." --Jef
        Raskin


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      • Roberts, David J (CNSP N6124V13)
        I would say so. That s why we do empirical. David Roberts TRMS Technical Lead (619) 368-9621 ... From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@XProgramming.com] Sent:
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 6, 2004
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          I would say so. That's why we do empirical.

           

          David Roberts

          TRMS Technical Lead

          (619) 368-9621

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@...]
          Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 7:23 PM
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] SCRUM process with other methodologies

           

          On Monday, April 5, 2004, at 9:23:18 PM, Roberts, David J (CNSP N6124V13) wrote:

          > I find the time features are found to be necessary always seems to come
          > after you've developed something. You're lucky if otherwise is true for you.

          > I see developers having these meeting with customers. The developers leave
          > thinking, "I've locked down these requirements!" and the customer leaves
          > thinking "I know what they're going to build me". Both are problematic.

          Isn't that why Scrum ships software every month, and XP and Crystal even
          more often?

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          Anyone can make the simple complicated.
          Creativity is making the complicated simple. -- Charles Mingus



          To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
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        • Claude Montpetit
          We just implemented a Scrum process and there are many stories that were added just for requirement analysis. This became necessary because the product is
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 6, 2004
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            We just implemented a Scrum process and there are many stories that
            were added just for requirement analysis. This became necessary
            because the product is already sold and installed at some customer
            locations (a server product). These customers have custom
            requirements that we do for them and they (generally) pay us. So we
            need to estimate the work required for it. Producing an estimate is
            therefore a story that must be prioritized. Once the estimate is
            completed and the quote sent to the customer, another story is created
            in the product backlog:

            Implement request X for customer Y based on estimate Z

            Implementing Scrum is very new to me and I am not sure about how to
            deal with, for example, urgent estimates that must enter the current
            sprint. Telling the salesman to wait for the next iteration for the
            quote is not usually a good thing as it means that the implementation
            would in theory start very late:

            - month 1: submit the request
            - month 2: produce the estimate
            - month 3: implement the request

            This is not practical of course so we have been inserting estimates in
            the current sprint and informed the customer that he must decide in
            the current month whether he wants to go ahead or not if he wants it
            to be done in the next sprint.

            One of the strongest problem I had (and still have) implementing this
            process was to convince people outside of the development team
            (client, marketing, sales) that they should know about details of the
            products (bugs, certain improvements that look "too technical"...)

            Once the product backlog was transfered to "clients", and when I asked
            them to prioritize items, they thought that there was too many
            details. I then realized that they felt this way because they did not
            understand the product enough, and that the development team had been
            driving the product on their own since day one. Changing this around
            is a real challenge. For this reason, I am currently acting as both
            the Scrum master and the product owner until I can find someone
            outside the dev team that will take the product owner role and manage
            priorities.

            But overall, the implementation of a well defined process (Scrum) has
            been welcomed by the client/marketing/sales side as they know what we
            are working on now and they have control on what is next.

            -
            Claude Montpetit
            http://www.montpetit.net
          • Ron Jeffries
            ... The teams I have worked with can estimate things at a rate of several hundred per day, so I would think that if all you need is an estimate, you could just
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 6, 2004
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              On Tuesday, April 6, 2004, at 5:58:14 PM, Claude Montpetit wrote:

              > Implementing Scrum is very new to me and I am not sure about how to
              > deal with, for example, urgent estimates that must enter the current
              > sprint. Telling the salesman to wait for the next iteration for the
              > quote is not usually a good thing as it means that the implementation
              > would in theory start very late:

              The teams I have worked with can estimate things at a rate of several
              hundred per day, so I would think that if all you need is an estimate, you
              could just wander in and ask. But of course there's this pig / chicken rule
              in Scrum, so I don't know what the official answer should be.

              On the other hand, my experience with sales people suggests that often
              things need not be as urgent as they tend to be described ...

              Ron Jeffries
              www.XProgramming.com
              Fear is the mindkiller. --Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
            • Mike Cohn
              If these are truly one or two at a time I handle them in the next morning s Daily Scrum. We ll do the Scrum meeting as normal then everyone will stay for a few
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 6, 2004
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                If these are truly one or two at a time I handle them in the next morning's
                Daily Scrum. We'll do the Scrum meeting as normal then everyone will stay
                for a few minutes and we'll estimate a story or two from the previous day or
                that came up early in the morning.

                We routinely also slip in an occasional one-hour estimating session in each
                sprint just to look outward at future stories. That will eventually stop but
                we're working through a large backlog of unestimated stories.

                --Mike Cohn
                Author of User Stories Applied for Agile Software Development
                www.userstories.com

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 6:04 PM
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and requirements (was Re: SCRUM
                process with other methodologies)

                On Tuesday, April 6, 2004, at 5:58:14 PM, Claude Montpetit wrote:

                > Implementing Scrum is very new to me and I am not sure about how to
                > deal with, for example, urgent estimates that must enter the current
                > sprint. Telling the salesman to wait for the next iteration for the
                > quote is not usually a good thing as it means that the implementation
                > would in theory start very late:

                The teams I have worked with can estimate things at a rate of several
                hundred per day, so I would think that if all you need is an estimate, you
                could just wander in and ask. But of course there's this pig / chicken rule
                in Scrum, so I don't know what the official answer should be.

                On the other hand, my experience with sales people suggests that often
                things need not be as urgent as they tend to be described ...

                Ron Jeffries
                www.XProgramming.com
                Fear is the mindkiller. --Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear



                To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
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              • Claude Montpetit
                Just in case it was misunderstood, what I was referring to in my post were not the usual product backlog estimates, but estimates used to establish a fixed
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 6, 2004
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                  Just in case it was misunderstood, what I was referring to in my post
                  were not the usual product backlog estimates, but estimates used to
                  establish a fixed price bid for some requested product extensions.
                  Because they are for fixed price extensions, these estimation
                  requests become stories on their own as opposed to the rough estimates
                  that we set on most stories that enter the backlog.

                  (I have personnally never worked on a team that can produce such
                  estimates at a rate of hundred per day... must be great though ;)

                  Claude

                  --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
                  <ronjeffries@X...> wrote:
                  > On Tuesday, April 6, 2004, at 5:58:14 PM, Claude Montpetit wrote:
                  >
                  >>Implementing Scrum is very new to me and I am not sure about how to
                  >>deal with, for example, urgent estimates that must enter the current
                  >>sprint. Telling the salesman to wait for the next iteration for the
                  >>quote is not usually a good thing as it means that the implementation
                  >>would in theory start very late:
                  >
                  >The teams I have worked with can estimate things at a rate of several
                  >hundred per day, so I would think that if all you need is an
                  estimate, you
                  >could just wander in and ask. But of course there's this pig
                  > / chicken rule in Scrum, so I don't know what the official answer
                  should be.
                  >
                  >On the other hand, my experience with sales people suggests that
                  >often things need not be as urgent as they tend to be described ...
                  >
                  > Ron Jeffries
                  > www.XProgramming.com
                  > Fear is the mindkiller. --Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
                • Ron Jeffries
                  ... Yes. If it s a whole product, that would take a half-day or a day. I m talking about story estimates. If the group is commonly called upon to do that, I
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 7, 2004
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                    On Tuesday, April 6, 2004, at 11:33:23 PM, Claude Montpetit wrote:

                    > Just in case it was misunderstood, what I was referring to in my post
                    > were not the usual product backlog estimates, but estimates used to
                    > establish a fixed price bid for some requested product extensions.
                    > Because they are for fixed price extensions, these estimation
                    > requests become stories on their own as opposed to the rough estimates
                    > that we set on most stories that enter the backlog.

                    > (I have personnally never worked on a team that can produce such
                    > estimates at a rate of hundred per day... must be great though ;)

                    Yes. If it's a whole product, that would take a half-day or a day. I'm
                    talking about story estimates.

                    If the group is commonly called upon to do that, I guess I'd just plan for
                    it in the team's velocity.

                    Ron Jeffries
                    www.XProgramming.com
                    Accroche toi a ton reve. --ELO
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