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RE: [XP] Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: [APM] Re: Refactoring Requirements over Tracing them (was RE: Business Traceability)

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  • Mike Beedle
    ... Unfortunately, this is true. As the government mandates how to undergo business activities, traceability will come down to systems through a variety of
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 18, 2004
      On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 07:47:09PM -0600, Gary Brown wrote:
      > This is just crap. I have been watching this thread closely, what I
      > see are a lot of folks who want to add a bunch of useless tasks to
      > Agile/XP projects.

      Brad Appleton wrote:
      > Whoa! Who are you claiming has said they WANT to add this stuff? I
      > certainly haven't. I started from the very beginning saying I think
      > traceability is predictive rather than adaptive. Then I (and even
      > Mike) also acknowledged that bunches of folks are in the boat of
      > having to meet a traceability mandate for their projects (not
      > something they WANT, something that is being mandated of them) and
      > that, for better or worse, SOX is likely to increase this trend (some
      > are saying it already has), again NOT because it is legally required
      > by SOX but because of fear

      Unfortunately, this is true. As the government mandates how
      to undergo business activities, traceability will come down
      to systems through a variety of regulations ranging from
      "financial controls" (SOX), to "necessity" and/or 'procedural"

      Gary Brown wrote:
      > All of this can be captured at the story level by the appropriate SCM
      > annotations.

      Brad Appleton wrote:
      > I think that is EXACTLY what I have been arguing (thank you for
      > reiterating that). And I think Mike tried to argue that would be
      > insufficient cuz it would miss stuff, and wouldn't catch everything.
      > And I argued I don't need perfection/everything, just "good enough",
      > and I think the above does that.

      Yes, I do say this, but I think the system you propose
      "has value" -- like I said, I would love to download
      it and use it.

      Gary Brown wrote:
      > Executable tests are better than written documentation. The
      > test are always up to date. The documentation usually
      > is not, in my experience.

      Brad Appleton wrote:
      > No one here that I know has been arguing against that
      > either. No one here has argued for docs instead of tests,
      > nor for traceability instead of tests.

      Well, I thought you did ;-), but I am glad to hear you don't,

      Brad wrote:
      > Nonetheless, there are going to be those which will have a
      > traceability mandate to meet and will want to be as agile as they can
      > be while doing the simplest thing possible to meet that mandate. And
      > I've claimed if you DO have such a mandate, executable tests alone
      > won't meet it (if it did, then you really don't have such a mandate).

      Brad, you probably missed a section of one of my posts.

      But in the unfortunate event that you are required or
      forced to do some traceability (yuck!), I think *you can*
      generate lots of traceability data through the
      acceptance tests.

      This is a proposal similar but different than you
      "SCM-based automated traceability".

      Here is how it would work:

      1) Write every acceptance test for a story
      in a way that the logger dumps a "dependent trace",
      spitting out classes as they are used in the
      different stacks.

      2) Parse the outcome for each acceptance test
      to understand the *dependency list* of every
      acceptance test.

      3) Integrate (combine the dependency lists)
      across all acceptance tests for all stories.

      You can then turn on or off this tracing mechanism in
      production, but "the system" can generate its own
      "traceability matrix", I think,

      - Mike


      "A man who has the knowledge but lacks the power clearly to
      express it is no better off than if he never had any ideas at all."

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