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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Why are we still allowing the term "Agile Project Manager

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  • David H.
    ... no, agile is not ok either. Agile, as used in the context described above, is going to be understood to be an attribute. That attribute is already
    Message 1 of 71 , Jul 1 11:42 AM
      On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 6:42 PM, aalanatlas <alanatat@...> wrote:
      > Perhaps this is a bit too pedestrian, but maybe we just need a better
      > term for this role that Jim and Doug have described? I think that role
      > exists, too, and I agree that Agile Project Manager is an unfortunate
      > name for it, but I don't think anybody suggested a different term yet.
      > So, let's see. We don't like the word "Project", we don't like the
      > word "Manager", and we don't like the phrase "Project Manager". But
      > "Agile" is OK. What to do?
      >
      no, agile is not ok either. Agile, as used in the context described
      above, is going to be understood to be an attribute. That attribute is
      already overloaded with a different meaning, quite clearly defined:

      "ag·ile Audio Help /ˈædʒəl, -aɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show
      Spelled Pronunciation[aj-uhl, -ahyl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA
      Pronunciation
      –adjective
      1. quick and well-coordinated in movement; lithe: an agile leap.
      2. active; lively: an agile person.
      3. marked by an ability to think quickly; mentally acute or aware:
      She's 95 and still very agile. "

      apart from maybe three, I do not see anything directly pertaining to a
      person which has an agile mindset as described in the agile manifesto.

      > Agile Release Leader might be a good name for this role.

      Why would you insist on having a role? Why "tack" the attribute agile
      in front of another well established phrase?

      >A lot of
      > agile folks seem to have become less happy with the use of the word
      > "project" lately, but everybody seems to agree that we still work on
      > releases when we're working on software. We already understand the
      > concept of agile leadership fairly well, including the philosophy of
      > "servant leadership".
      >
      I doubt we do, if we did why are there so few out tere teaching and
      practicing it?

      <snip>

      -d

      --
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      Do not send me sensitive information here, ask for my none-gmail accounts.

      "Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
      benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hello, Robert. On Wednesday, July 2, 2008, at 11:19:55 AM, you ... OK. Why do /you/ think Scrum works. ... Interesting. What do you see in the definition of
      Message 71 of 71 , Jul 2 11:41 AM
        Hello, Robert. On Wednesday, July 2, 2008, at 11:19:55 AM, you
        wrote:

        > Your earlier message said:

        >> Scrum works, in my opinion, because it requires two things:
        >> 1. Produce Done-Done software on a regular basis;
        >> 2. Remove every obstacle to doing item 1.

        > I'm not sure I agree. In particular, it seems to suggest an absolute
        > focus on
        > software, and it seems to suggest seeing other things as obstacles to that.

        OK. Why do /you/ think Scrum works.

        > I think an important advantage of scrum, and other agile
        > processes, is that they involve software development in a wider
        > context, and in that wider context the development of software is
        > unlikely to be the priority.

        Interesting. What do you see in the definition of Scrum that leads
        you to believe it is not focused on software? A reference would be
        nice.

        > So the advantage for software development is that the process is
        > more likely to lead to software that helps in that larger context.
        > This means it is important for everyone to realise that software
        > development is not the ultimate goal, and that things that might
        > seem like obstacles may in fact show aspects of the wider context
        > that need to be better understood and may in fact change the
        > nature of the software development.

        So that whole "Agile Software Development with Scrum" thing was just
        what ... a typo?

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's;
        I will not reason and compare; my business is to create. --William Blake
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