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To whom should the ScrumMaster report?

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  • alfaro.david
    In Costa Rica we are gathering some agile fellows and Scrum advocates. And because this magic is taking shape, there are some guys from traditional
    Message 1 of 16 , May 28, 2008
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      In Costa Rica we are gathering some agile fellows and Scrum advocates.
      And because this magic is taking shape, there are some guys from
      traditional organizational structures that ask some
      administrative/bureaucratic questions.

      I recently had a short discussion of "to whom" the ScrumMaster should
      report, and "what" besides the results visible from review meetings
      and Product Backlog progress. I mean, the whole team is accountable
      for the results and the ScrumMaster has the responsibility (role) of
      facilitating the scrum process, resolving impediments and risks, and
      foster the team behavior . I am not a fan of complex (stiff)
      hierarchical structures in organizations. I would appreciate your
      opinions about it.

      Additionally, (this is tough) what is the ScrumMaster salary in
      proportion to, let's say, a senior developer? I ask for proportions
      because salaries vary from place to place.

      Thanks,
      David.
    • woynam
      The ScrumMaster should report directly to God. :-) As a SM in a large hierarchical organization, I spend a great deal of time talking to the big man upstairs,
      Message 2 of 16 , May 28, 2008
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        The ScrumMaster should report directly to God. :-) As a SM in a large
        hierarchical organization, I spend a great deal of time talking to the
        big man upstairs, so I may as well report to him. ;-)

        Mark


        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "alfaro.david"
        <alfaro.david@...> wrote:
        >
        > In Costa Rica we are gathering some agile fellows and Scrum advocates.
        > And because this magic is taking shape, there are some guys from
        > traditional organizational structures that ask some
        > administrative/bureaucratic questions.
        >
        > I recently had a short discussion of "to whom" the ScrumMaster should
        > report, and "what" besides the results visible from review meetings
        > and Product Backlog progress. I mean, the whole team is accountable
        > for the results and the ScrumMaster has the responsibility (role) of
        > facilitating the scrum process, resolving impediments and risks, and
        > foster the team behavior . I am not a fan of complex (stiff)
        > hierarchical structures in organizations. I would appreciate your
        > opinions about it.
        >
        > Additionally, (this is tough) what is the ScrumMaster salary in
        > proportion to, let's say, a senior developer? I ask for proportions
        > because salaries vary from place to place.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > David.
        >
      • barvybe
        I feel that the SM is responsible to the organization and should report up to an operational group as to the status, on time / budget (cause all development
        Message 3 of 16 , May 28, 2008
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          I feel that the SM is responsible to the organization and should
          report up to an operational group as to the status, on time / budget
          (cause all development has these things), issues / risks, etc. to the
          key stakeholders. While an SM doesn't actively "manage" project
          resources, they do facilitate tracking and understanding them.

          I'd imagine that key stakeholders might include:

          1. the development team (CTO?)
          2. the product and its success (CMO?)
          3. and the fiscal team (COO / CFO?)

          Practically speaking, you wouldn't want that many bosses of course.
          In our organization, the SM reports into the COO's organization but
          reports information to a small committee charged with global
          understanding of all projects / efforts in terms of status and
          prioritization. I'm sure that every organization differs in how that
          group might be organized. Here it includes the CKO / CIO (me), our
          COO, and the Marketing Director.

          In terms of what to report:
          - progress toward release dates and feature sets
          - overruns on time / budget
          - issues / risks with the development
          - personnel / team dynamic issues (largely to me as Agile Coach)

          - P
        • matt gelbwaks
          I have started an evolution in that there be the inclusion of a CA position. The CA is the Chief Agilist - the head methodologist and the person that the CEO,
          Message 4 of 16 , May 28, 2008
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            I have started an evolution in that there be the inclusion of a CA position.  The CA is the Chief Agilist - the head methodologist and the person that the CEO, CIO, and Business holds responsible for the successful execution of projects.  NOTE - this is not the successful delivery of a project, but it is closely related.  The reason there is such a person is that we all believe that stringent adherence to the agile values and methods will dramatically increase the probability of successfully meeting corporate goals through project delivery.  If this is the case, then the person who is driving the methodology should be willing to accept accountability and responsibility for meeting these goals.  This is a position that I have played at a couple corporations (including Borland Software) and is now spreading to other corporations as well (The Gap has a Chief Agilist now and Fidelity is hiring one, though its title is slightly different).

            m


            On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 3:00 PM, barvybe <pgoldey@...> wrote:

            I feel that the SM is responsible to the organization and should
            report up to an operational group as to the status, on time / budget
            (cause all development has these things), issues / risks, etc. to the
            key stakeholders. While an SM doesn't actively "manage" project
            resources, they do facilitate tracking and understanding them.

            I'd imagine that key stakeholders might include:

            1. the development team (CTO?)
            2. the product and its success (CMO?)
            3. and the fiscal team (COO / CFO?)

            Practically speaking, you wouldn't want that many bosses of course.
            In our organization, the SM reports into the COO's organization but
            reports information to a small committee charged with global
            understanding of all projects / efforts in terms of status and
            prioritization. I'm sure that every organization differs in how that
            group might be organized. Here it includes the CKO / CIO (me), our
            COO, and the Marketing Director.

            In terms of what to report:
            - progress toward release dates and feature sets
            - overruns on time / budget
            - issues / risks with the development
            - personnel / team dynamic issues (largely to me as Agile Coach)

            - P


          • lyssaadkins
            Let me address the to whom part of the question... It s easier for me to answer this in reverse first. My experience tells me the ScrumMaster should NOT
            Message 5 of 16 , May 29, 2008
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              Let me address the "to whom" part of the question...

              It's easier for me to answer this in reverse first. My experience
              tells me the ScrumMaster should NOT report to the same organization in
              which the projects she is ScrumMastering are being sponsored. This is
              because a really effective ScrumMaster has to be free to tell the hard
              truths. And, if the company wants to reap the full benefits of Agile,
              the ScrumMaster must be able to deal openly with the bad and the ugly
              that always arise from the transparency Agile brings.

              I have seen that this is almost impossible for folks, even courageous
              folks, when the people they have to tell the hard truths to are the
              same ones writing their performance appraisals.

              So, who SHOULD they report to? Probably some central organization
              that reports pretty high up to Executives in the company.

              My thoughts.
            • woynam
              No, the ScrumMaster just has to have a thick skin. It also helps if the ScrumMaster is independently wealthy, and is thus not too worried about being fired for
              Message 6 of 16 , May 29, 2008
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                No, the ScrumMaster just has to have a thick skin. It also helps if
                the ScrumMaster is independently wealthy, and is thus not too worried
                about being fired for speaking the truth.

                If your supervisor causes you grief as a ScrumMaster because you speak
                the uncomfortable truth, then the organization hasn't quite gotten the
                whole "honesty" part of the agile principles.

                Mark


                --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "lyssaadkins" <lclark@...> wrote:
                >
                > Let me address the "to whom" part of the question...
                >
                > It's easier for me to answer this in reverse first. My experience
                > tells me the ScrumMaster should NOT report to the same organization in
                > which the projects she is ScrumMastering are being sponsored. This is
                > because a really effective ScrumMaster has to be free to tell the hard
                > truths. And, if the company wants to reap the full benefits of Agile,
                > the ScrumMaster must be able to deal openly with the bad and the ugly
                > that always arise from the transparency Agile brings.
                >
                > I have seen that this is almost impossible for folks, even courageous
                > folks, when the people they have to tell the hard truths to are the
                > same ones writing their performance appraisals.
                >
                > So, who SHOULD they report to? Probably some central organization
                > that reports pretty high up to Executives in the company.
                >
                > My thoughts.
                >
              • Wolfgang Schulze Zachau
                Hi all, this is all well and good, but it makes the choice of possible ScrumMasters rather slim, doesn t it? I mean, if the ScrumMaster is independently
                Message 7 of 16 , May 30, 2008
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                  Hi all,
                   
                  this is all well and good, but it makes the choice of possible ScrumMasters rather slim, doesn't it? I mean, if the ScrumMaster is "independently wealthy", then why on Earth would he want to subject himself to the pain of being a ScrumMaster?
                  I would agree with the thick skin requirement. I have a thick skin, and I am (mostly) unafraid to speak the truth, but it took me more than 2 years to get into a position where I can tell the PO of one of our teams (who also happens to be the MD of the company and my direct superior) that "he should know better than that" when he simply added some user stories to the sprint backlog in the middle of a sprint (without dropping any other stories). And there are some impediments to Scrum at my company which I can raise with the board, but I know full well that every single time I raise them, I will get a big fat "NO" as an answer. Gets a bit tiring after three years, I can tell you.
                  And in the end I would like to remind everybody that a dead ScrumMaster is no good to anyone.
                  I think it doesn't actually matter whom the ScrumMaster actually reports to. It is more important what kind of a person (s)he is. Thick skin, yes. Dedication to truth, yes. Willing to take personal risks, yes. Negotiator and facilitator, yes.
                   

                  Regards,

                  Wolfgang

                   


                  From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of woynam
                  Sent: 29 May 2008 21:30
                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?


                  No, the ScrumMaster just has to have a thick skin. It also helps if
                  the ScrumMaster is independently wealthy, and is thus not too worried
                  about being fired for speaking the truth.

                  If your supervisor causes you grief as a ScrumMaster because you speak
                  the uncomfortable truth, then the organization hasn't quite gotten the
                  whole "honesty" part of the agile principles.

                  Mark

                  --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, "lyssaadkins" <lclark@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Let me address the "to whom" part of the question...
                  >
                  > It's easier for me to answer this in reverse first. My experience
                  > tells me the ScrumMaster should NOT report to the same organization in
                  > which the projects she is ScrumMastering are being sponsored. This is
                  > because a really effective ScrumMaster has to be free to tell the hard
                  > truths. And, if the company wants to reap the full benefits of Agile,
                  > the ScrumMaster must be able to deal openly with the bad and the ugly
                  > that always arise from the transparency Agile brings.
                  >
                  > I have seen that this is almost impossible for folks, even courageous
                  > folks, when the people they have to tell the hard truths to are the
                  > same ones writing their performance appraisals.
                  >
                  > So, who SHOULD they report to? Probably some central organization
                  > that reports pretty high up to Executives in the company.
                  >
                  > My thoughts.
                  >

                • woynam
                  ... ScrumMasters ... pain of ... I forgot to add that being masochistic also helps. ;-) ... and I am ... years to ... also ... should ... sprint ... stories).
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 30, 2008
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                    --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schulze Zachau"
                    <wolfgang@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi all,
                    >
                    > this is all well and good, but it makes the choice of possible
                    ScrumMasters
                    > rather slim, doesn't it? I mean, if the ScrumMaster is "independently
                    > wealthy", then why on Earth would he want to subject himself to the
                    pain of
                    > being a ScrumMaster?

                    I forgot to add that being masochistic also helps. ;-)


                    > I would agree with the thick skin requirement. I have a thick skin,
                    and I am
                    > (mostly) unafraid to speak the truth, but it took me more than 2
                    years to
                    > get into a position where I can tell the PO of one of our teams (who
                    also
                    > happens to be the MD of the company and my direct superior) that "he
                    should
                    > know better than that" when he simply added some user stories to the
                    sprint
                    > backlog in the middle of a sprint (without dropping any other
                    stories). And
                    > there are some impediments to Scrum at my company which I can raise
                    with the
                    > board, but I know full well that every single time I raise them, I
                    will get
                    > a big fat "NO" as an answer. Gets a bit tiring after three years, I
                    can tell
                    > you.
                    > And in the end I would like to remind everybody that a dead
                    ScrumMaster is
                    > no good to anyone.

                    Actually, if you pile enough dead ScrumMasters up in front of the
                    team, you can build a fairly decent wall. This is another way to keep
                    the team free from outside forces.

                    Mark

                    > I think it doesn't actually matter whom the ScrumMaster actually
                    reports to.
                    > It is more important what kind of a person (s)he is. Thick skin, yes.
                    > Dedication to truth, yes. Willing to take personal risks, yes.
                    Negotiator
                    > and facilitator, yes.
                    >
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    >
                    > Wolfgang
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of woynam
                    > Sent: 29 May 2008 21:30
                    > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > No, the ScrumMaster just has to have a thick skin. It also helps if
                    > the ScrumMaster is independently wealthy, and is thus not too worried
                    > about being fired for speaking the truth.
                    >
                    > If your supervisor causes you grief as a ScrumMaster because you speak
                    > the uncomfortable truth, then the organization hasn't quite gotten the
                    > whole "honesty" part of the agile principles.
                    >
                    > Mark
                    >
                    > --- In scrumdevelopment@ <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com, "lyssaadkins" <lclark@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Let me address the "to whom" part of the question...
                    > >
                    > > It's easier for me to answer this in reverse first. My experience
                    > > tells me the ScrumMaster should NOT report to the same
                    organization in
                    > > which the projects she is ScrumMastering are being sponsored. This is
                    > > because a really effective ScrumMaster has to be free to tell the
                    hard
                    > > truths. And, if the company wants to reap the full benefits of Agile,
                    > > the ScrumMaster must be able to deal openly with the bad and the ugly
                    > > that always arise from the transparency Agile brings.
                    > >
                    > > I have seen that this is almost impossible for folks, even courageous
                    > > folks, when the people they have to tell the hard truths to are the
                    > > same ones writing their performance appraisals.
                    > >
                    > > So, who SHOULD they report to? Probably some central organization
                    > > that reports pretty high up to Executives in the company.
                    > >
                    > > My thoughts.
                    > >
                    >
                  • Ken Schwaber
                    The ScrumMaster is a regular manager . except executing his/her responsibilities using servant leadership rather than command and control. So, just take their
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 30, 2008
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                      The ScrumMaster is a regular manager … except executing his/her responsibilities using servant leadership rather than command and control. So, just take their previous title and give it a suffix – Dev Manager-ScrumMaster. Functional managers either become ScrumMasters with teams or something else. All of the below items are no longer necessary for a manager to do, because they are done by the self-managing Scrum team:

                       

                      1. Make commitments on behalf of the team about how much they can get done by a certain date
                      2. Convince team that the commitments made on their behalf are attainable
                      3. Give direction to the team on how to implement the work, so they can deliver on the commitment
                      4. Monitor the team's progress, to make sure they stay on schedule, and isn’t having problems
                      5. Step in and determine the solution, if the team falls behind on their schedule, or starts having problems
                      6. Conduct weekly status update and 1:1 meetings with the team, to surface issues, and provide direction
                      7. Provide motivation and push the team to work harder than they might want to, using carrots and / or sticks
                      8. Decide task assignments among the team members and follow up on tasks  to make sure they've been done
                      9. Be responsible for the team doing the right thing at the right time in the right way.

                       

                      Ken

                       

                       

                       

                      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of woynam
                      Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:40 AM
                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?

                       

                      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schulze Zachau"
                      <wolfgang@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > Hi all,
                      >
                      > this is all well and good, but it makes the choice of possible
                      ScrumMasters
                      > rather slim, doesn't it? I mean, if the ScrumMaster is "independently
                      > wealthy", then why on Earth would he want to subject himself to the
                      pain of
                      > being a ScrumMaster?

                      I forgot to add that being masochistic also helps. ;-)

                      > I would agree with the thick skin requirement. I have a thick skin,
                      and I am
                      > (mostly) unafraid to speak the truth, but it took me more than 2
                      years to
                      > get into a position where I can tell the PO of one of our teams (who
                      also
                      > happens to be the MD of the company and my direct superior) that "he
                      should
                      > know better than that" when he simply added some user stories to the
                      sprint
                      > backlog in the middle of a sprint (without dropping any other
                      stories). And
                      > there are some impediments to Scrum at my company which I can raise
                      with the
                      > board, but I know full well that every single time I raise them, I
                      will get
                      > a big fat "NO" as an answer. Gets a bit tiring after three
                      years, I
                      can tell
                      > you.
                      > And in the end I would like to remind everybody that a dead
                      ScrumMaster is
                      > no good to anyone.

                      Actually, if you pile enough dead ScrumMasters up in front of the
                      team, you can build a fairly decent wall. This is another way to keep
                      the team free from outside forces.

                      Mark

                      > I think it doesn't actually matter whom the ScrumMaster actually
                      reports to.
                      > It is more important what kind of a person (s)he is. Thick skin, yes.
                      > Dedication to truth, yes. Willing to take personal risks, yes.
                      Negotiator
                      > and facilitator, yes.
                      >
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      > Wolfgang
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of woynam
                      > Sent: 29 May 2008 21:30
                      > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > No, the ScrumMaster just has to have a thick skin. It also helps if
                      > the ScrumMaster is independently wealthy, and is thus not too worried
                      > about being fired for speaking the truth.
                      >
                      > If your supervisor causes you grief as a ScrumMaster because you speak
                      > the uncomfortable truth, then the organization hasn't quite gotten the
                      > whole "honesty" part of the agile principles.
                      >
                      > Mark
                      >
                      > --- In scrumdevelopment@ <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > yahoogroups.com, "lyssaadkins" <lclark@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Let me address the "to whom" part of the question...
                      > >
                      > > It's easier for me to answer this in reverse first. My experience
                      > > tells me the ScrumMaster should NOT report to the same
                      organization in
                      > > which the projects she is ScrumMastering are being sponsored. This is
                      > > because a really effective ScrumMaster has to be free to tell the
                      hard
                      > > truths. And, if the company wants to reap the full benefits of Agile,
                      > > the ScrumMaster must be able to deal openly with the bad and the ugly
                      > > that always arise from the transparency Agile brings.
                      > >
                      > > I have seen that this is almost impossible for folks, even courageous
                      > > folks, when the people they have to tell the hard truths to are the
                      > > same ones writing their performance appraisals.
                      > >
                      > > So, who SHOULD they report to? Probably some central organization
                      > > that reports pretty high up to Executives in the company.
                      > >
                      > > My thoughts.
                      > >
                      >

                    • Scott Downey
                      Hi Ken, I have observed a few situations now where the direct supervisor of a team attempted to fill either the Scrum Master or Product Owner function for
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 30, 2008
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                        Hi Ken,
                         
                        I have observed a few situations now where the direct supervisor of a team attempted to fill either the Scrum Master or Product Owner function for their team.  In my experience, the results have been uniformly disappointing. 
                         
                        With a Manager as Scrum Master, it has been all but impossible to restrain their enthusiasm for dictating solutions and using their role as Scrum Master to call "Parking Lot" on anyone who disagrees with them.  With a Manager as a Product Owner, it seems infeasibly difficult to keep them from assigning work to team members or demanding new tasks be inserted into the Sprint, even without the Scrum Master/Non-Manager knowing it.
                         
                        How have you overcome these personalities/situations?  Any advice you may have would be richly appreciated.
                         
                        Best,
                        Scott


                        Ken Schwaber <ken.schwaber@...> wrote:
                        The ScrumMaster is a regular manager … except executing his/her responsibilities using servant leadership rather than command and control. So, just take their previous title and give it a suffix – Dev Manager-ScrumMaster . Functional managers either become ScrumMasters with teams or something else. All of the below items are no longer necessary for a manager to do, because they are done by the self-managing Scrum team:
                        1. Make commitments on behalf of the team about how much they can get done by a certain date
                        2. Convince team that the commitments made on their behalf are attainable
                        3. Give direction to the team on how to implement the work, so they can deliver on the commitment
                        4. Monitor the team's progress, to make sure they stay on schedule, and isn’t having problems
                        5. Step in and determine the solution, if the team falls behind on their schedule, or starts having problems
                        6. Conduct weekly status update and 1:1 meetings with the team, to surface issues, and provide direction
                        7. Provide motivation and push the team to work harder than they might want to, using carrots and / or sticks
                        8. Decide task assignments among the team members and follow up on tasks  to make sure they've been done
                        9. Be responsible for the team doing the right thing at the right time in the right way.
                        Ken
                        From: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:scrumdevelo pment@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of woynam
                        Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:40 AM
                        To: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?
                        --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com, "Wolfgang Schulze Zachau"
                        <wolfgang@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi all,
                        >
                        > this is all well and good, but it makes the choice of possible
                        ScrumMasters
                        > rather slim, doesn't it? I mean, if the ScrumMaster is "independently
                        > wealthy", then why on Earth would he want to subject himself to the
                        pain of
                        > being a ScrumMaster?

                        I forgot to add that being masochistic also helps. ;-)

                        > I would agree with the thick skin requirement. I have a thick skin,
                        and I am
                        > (mostly) unafraid to speak the truth, but it took me more than 2
                        years to
                        > get into a position where I can tell the PO of one of our teams (who
                        also
                        > happens to be the MD of the company and my direct superior) that "he
                        should
                        > know better than that" when he simply added some user stories to the
                        sprint
                        > backlog in the middle of a sprint (without dropping any other
                        stories). And
                        > there are some impediments to Scrum at my company which I can raise
                        with the
                        > board, but I know full well that every single time I raise them, I
                        will get
                        > a big fat "NO" as an answer. Gets a bit tiring after three years, I
                        can tell
                        > you.
                        > And in the end I would like to remind everybody that a dead
                        ScrumMaster is
                        > no good to anyone.

                        Actually, if you pile enough dead ScrumMasters up in front of the
                        team, you can build a fairly decent wall. This is another way to keep
                        the team free from outside forces.

                        Mark

                        > I think it doesn't actually matter whom the ScrumMaster actually
                        reports to.
                        > It is more important what kind of a person (s)he is. Thick skin, yes.
                        > Dedication to truth, yes. Willing to take personal risks, yes.
                        Negotiator
                        > and facilitator, yes.
                        >
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > Wolfgang
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
                        > [mailto:scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of woynam
                        > Sent: 29 May 2008 21:30
                        > To: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
                        > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > No, the ScrumMaster just has to have a thick skin. It also helps if
                        > the ScrumMaster is independently wealthy, and is thus not too worried
                        > about being fired for speaking the truth.
                        >
                        > If your supervisor causes you grief as a ScrumMaster because you speak
                        > the uncomfortable truth, then the organization hasn't quite gotten the
                        > whole "honesty" part of the agile principles.
                        >
                        > Mark
                        >
                        > --- In scrumdevelopment@ <mailto:scrumdevelop ment%40yahoogrou ps.com>
                        > yahoogroups. com, "lyssaadkins" <lclark@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Let me address the "to whom" part of the question...
                        > >
                        > > It's easier for me to answer this in reverse first. My experience
                        > > tells me the ScrumMaster should NOT report to the same
                        organization in
                        > > which the projects she is ScrumMastering are being sponsored. This is
                        > > because a really effective ScrumMaster has to be free to tell the
                        hard
                        > > truths. And, if the company wants to reap the full benefits of Agile,
                        > > the ScrumMaster must be able to deal openly with the bad and the ugly
                        > > that always arise from the transparency Agile brings.
                        > >
                        > > I have seen that this is almost impossible for folks, even courageous
                        > > folks, when the people they have to tell the hard truths to are the
                        > > same ones writing their performance appraisals.
                        > >
                        > > So, who SHOULD they report to? Probably some central organization
                        > > that reports pretty high up to Executives in the company.
                        > >
                        > > My thoughts.
                        > >
                        >

                      • Ken Schwaber
                        Using existing managers as ScrumMasters presents them with the need to overcome everything that has worked for them in the past. Using existing developers
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 30, 2008
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                          Using existing managers as ScrumMasters presents them with the need to overcome everything that has worked for them in the past. Using existing developers presents them with the same need. Other than developers cutting quality at the drop of the hat, these are the most difficult changes that Scrum requires.

                           

                          I used to bring in new ScrumMasters, or find them elsewhere in the organization. Unfortunately this left the previous managers – the managers that team members still reported to – with not a whole lot to do. So they kept interrupting and interfering. They would sit in the daily scrums and the sprint planning meeting making sure that their people didn’t sign up for stuff that wasn’t theirs, and making sure that their people did what they said they would. A real mess and an example of idle hands being the devil’s workshop.

                           

                          So I ask the existing managers and developers, along with the product owner, to be the Scrum team. Every bad habit comes out and must be dealt with. I ask them to change teams to see how others are doing, so they can see someone else’s mistakes.

                           

                          The change in management is well documented in an article by Snowden and Boone in the November, 08 Harvard Business Review, Leadership Frameworks. Waterfall can be used on simple work and utilizes command and control. Scrum can be used on complex work and requires servant leadership.

                           

                          At the end of the first day of one CSM class, a manager asked, “All of this stuff is interesting, but I have to go back to my project and hit the dates, cost and functionality. What does this have to do with that?” So I pulled together several slides about what we learn in Scrum and servant leadership about motivation, productivity, and team composition. We discussed whether we believed these things to be true … such as a person taking their own commitments more seriously than someone else’s commitments for them. Everyone agreed. We then realized that the hard work for a manager is knowing that the skills he/she has used in the past are not the most productive and realizing that they have to hit the dates, costs, functionality in a new way if they were going to improve. This is the challenge of the CSM class and being a ScrumMaster --- not learning what has to change but dedicating oneself to acting on one’s perceptions of what is best.

                           

                          An example of these perceptions is:

                          1. People are most productive when they manage themselves;
                          2. People take their commitment more seriously than other people’s commitment for them;
                          3. People have many creative moments during down time;
                          4. People always do the best they can; and,
                          5. Under pressure to “work harder,” developers automatically and increasingly reduce quality.

                           

                          Best,

                          Ken

                           

                          From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Downey
                          Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:19 PM
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?

                           

                          Hi Ken,

                           

                          I have observed a few situations now where the direct supervisor of a team attempted to fill either the Scrum Master or Product Owner function for their team.  In my experience, the results have been uniformly disappointing. 

                           

                          With a Manager as Scrum Master, it has been all but impossible to restrain their enthusiasm for dictating solutions and using their role as Scrum Master to call "Parking Lot" on anyone who disagrees with them.  With a Manager as a Product Owner, it seems infeasibly difficult to keep them from assigning work to team members or demanding new tasks be inserted into the Sprint, even without the Scrum Master/Non-Manager knowing it.

                           

                          How have you overcome these personalities/situations?  Any advice you may have would be richly appreciated.

                           

                          Best,

                          Scott



                          Ken Schwaber <ken.schwaber@...> wrote:

                          The ScrumMaster is a regular manager … except executing his/her responsibilities using servant leadership rather than command and control. So, just take their previous title and give it a suffix – Dev Manager-ScrumMaster. Functional managers either become ScrumMasters with teams or something else. All of the below items are no longer necessary for a manager to do, because they are done by the self-managing Scrum team:

                          1.      Make commitments on behalf of the team about how much they can get done by a certain date

                          2.      Convince team that the commitments made on their behalf are attainable

                          3.      Give direction to the team on how to implement the work, so they can deliver on the commitment

                          4.      Monitor the team's progress, to make sure they stay on schedule, and isn’t having problems

                          5.      Step in and determine the solution, if the team falls behind on their schedule, or starts having problems

                          6.      Conduct weekly status update and 1:1 meetings with the team, to surface issues, and provide direction

                          7.      Provide motivation and push the team to work harder than they might want to, using carrots and / or sticks

                          8.      Decide task assignments among the team members and follow up on tasks  to make sure they've been done

                          9.      Be responsible for the team doing the right thing at the right time in the right way.

                          Ken

                          From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of woynam
                          Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:40 AM
                          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?

                          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schulze Zachau"
                          <wolfgang@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi all,
                          >
                          > this is all well and good, but it makes the choice of possible
                          ScrumMasters
                          > rather slim, doesn't it? I mean, if the ScrumMaster is "independently
                          > wealthy", then why on Earth would he want to subject himself to the
                          pain of
                          > being a ScrumMaster?

                          I forgot to add that being masochistic also helps. ;-)

                          > I would agree with the thick skin requirement. I have a thick skin,
                          and I am
                          > (mostly) unafraid to speak the truth, but it took me more than 2
                          years to
                          > get into a position where I can tell the PO of one of our teams (who
                          also
                          > happens to be the MD of the company and my direct superior) that "he
                          should
                          > know better than that" when he simply added some user stories to the
                          sprint
                          > backlog in the middle of a sprint (without dropping any other
                          stories). And
                          > there are some impediments to Scrum at my company which I can raise
                          with the
                          > board, but I know full well that every single time I raise them, I
                          will get
                          > a big fat "NO" as an answer. Gets a bit tiring after three years, I
                          can tell
                          > you.
                          > And in the end I would like to remind everybody that a dead
                          ScrumMaster is
                          > no good to anyone.

                          Actually, if you pile enough dead ScrumMasters up in front of the
                          team, you can build a fairly decent wall. This is another way to keep
                          the team free from outside forces.

                          Mark

                          > I think it doesn't actually matter whom the ScrumMaster actually
                          reports to.
                          > It is more important what kind of a person (s)he is. Thick skin, yes.
                          > Dedication to truth, yes. Willing to take personal risks, yes.
                          Negotiator
                          > and facilitator, yes.
                          >
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Wolfgang
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of woynam
                          > Sent: 29 May 2008 21:30
                          > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > No, the ScrumMaster just has to have a thick skin. It also helps if
                          > the ScrumMaster is independently wealthy, and is thus not too worried
                          > about being fired for speaking the truth.
                          >
                          > If your supervisor causes you grief as a ScrumMaster because you speak
                          > the uncomfortable truth, then the organization hasn't quite gotten the
                          > whole "honesty" part of the agile principles.
                          >
                          > Mark
                          >
                          > --- In scrumdevelopment@ <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > yahoogroups.com, "lyssaadkins" <lclark@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Let me address the "to whom" part of the question...
                          > >
                          > > It's easier for me to answer this in reverse first. My experience
                          > > tells me the ScrumMaster should NOT report to the same
                          organization in
                          > > which the projects she is ScrumMastering are being sponsored. This is
                          > > because a really effective ScrumMaster has to be free to tell the
                          hard
                          > > truths. And, if the company wants to reap the full benefits of Agile,
                          > > the ScrumMaster must be able to deal openly with the bad and the ugly
                          > > that always arise from the transparency Agile brings.
                          > >
                          > > I have seen that this is almost impossible for folks, even courageous
                          > > folks, when the people they have to tell the hard truths to are the
                          > > same ones writing their performance appraisals.
                          > >
                          > > So, who SHOULD they report to? Probably some central organization
                          > > that reports pretty high up to Executives in the company.
                          > >
                          > > My thoughts.
                          > >
                          >

                           

                           

                        • Ken Schwaber
                          Using existing managers as ScrumMasters presents them with the need to overcome everything that has worked for them in the past. Using existing developers
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 30, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Using existing managers as ScrumMasters presents them with the need to overcome everything that has worked for them in the past. Using existing developers presents them with the same need. Other than developers cutting quality at the drop of the hat, these are the most difficult changes that Scrum requires.

                             

                            I used to bring in new ScrumMasters, or find them elsewhere in the organization. Unfortunately this left the previous managers – the managers that team members still reported to – with not a whole lot to do. So they kept interrupting and interfering. They would sit in the daily scrums and the sprint planning meeting making sure that their people didn’t sign up for stuff that wasn’t theirs, and making sure that their people did what they said they would. A real mess and an example of idle hands being the devil’s workshop.

                             

                            So I ask the existing managers and developers, along with the product owner, to be the Scrum team. Every bad habit comes out and must be dealt with. I ask them to change teams to see how others are doing, so they can see someone else’s mistakes.

                             

                            The change in management is well documented in an article by Snowden and Boone in the November, 08 Harvard Business Review, Leadership Frameworks. Waterfall can be used on simple work and utilizes command and control. Scrum can be used on complex work and requires servant leadership.

                             

                            At the end of the first day of one CSM class, a manager asked, “All of this stuff is interesting, but I have to go back to my project and hit the dates, cost and functionality. What does this have to do with that?” So I pulled together several slides about what we learn in Scrum and servant leadership about motivation, productivity, and team composition. We discussed whether we believed these things to be true … such as a person taking their own commitments more seriously than someone else’s commitments for them. Everyone agreed. We then realized that the hard work for a manager is knowing that the skills he/she has used in the past are not the most productive and realizing that they have to hit the dates, costs, functionality in a new way if they were going to improve. This is the challenge of the CSM class and being a ScrumMaster --- not learning what has to change but dedicating oneself to acting on one’s perceptions of what is best.

                             

                            An example of these perceptions is:

                            1. People are most productive when they manage themselves;
                            2. People take their commitment more seriously than other people’s commitment for them;
                            3. People have many creative moments during down time;
                            4. People always do the best they can; and,
                            5. Under pressure to “work harder,” developers automatically and increasingly reduce quality.

                             

                            Best,

                            Ken

                             

                            From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Downey
                            Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:19 PM
                            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?

                             

                            Hi Ken,

                             

                            I have observed a few situations now where the direct supervisor of a team attempted to fill either the Scrum Master or Product Owner function for their team.  In my experience, the results have been uniformly disappointing. 

                             

                            With a Manager as Scrum Master, it has been all but impossible to restrain their enthusiasm for dictating solutions and using their role as Scrum Master to call "Parking Lot" on anyone who disagrees with them.  With a Manager as a Product Owner, it seems infeasibly difficult to keep them from assigning work to team members or demanding new tasks be inserted into the Sprint, even without the Scrum Master/Non-Manager knowing it.

                             

                            How have you overcome these personalities/situations?  Any advice you may have would be richly appreciated.

                             

                            Best,

                            Scott



                            Ken Schwaber <ken.schwaber@...> wrote:

                            The ScrumMaster is a regular manager … except executing his/her responsibilities using servant leadership rather than command and control. So, just take their previous title and give it a suffix – Dev Manager-ScrumMaster. Functional managers either become ScrumMasters with teams or something else. All of the below items are no longer necessary for a manager to do, because they are done by the self-managing Scrum team:

                            1.      Make commitments on behalf of the team about how much they can get done by a certain date

                            2.      Convince team that the commitments made on their behalf are attainable

                            3.      Give direction to the team on how to implement the work, so they can deliver on the commitment

                            4.      Monitor the team's progress, to make sure they stay on schedule, and isn’t having problems

                            5.      Step in and determine the solution, if the team falls behind on their schedule, or starts having problems

                            6.      Conduct weekly status update and 1:1 meetings with the team, to surface issues, and provide direction

                            7.      Provide motivation and push the team to work harder than they might want to, using carrots and / or sticks

                            8.      Decide task assignments among the team members and follow up on tasks  to make sure they've been done

                            9.      Be responsible for the team doing the right thing at the right time in the right way.

                            Ken

                            From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of woynam
                            Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:40 AM
                            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?

                            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schulze Zachau"
                            <wolfgang@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi all,
                            >
                            > this is all well and good, but it makes the choice of possible
                            ScrumMasters
                            > rather slim, doesn't it? I mean, if the ScrumMaster is "independently
                            > wealthy", then why on Earth would he want to subject himself to the
                            pain of
                            > being a ScrumMaster?

                            I forgot to add that being masochistic also helps. ;-)

                            > I would agree with the thick skin requirement. I have a thick skin,
                            and I am
                            > (mostly) unafraid to speak the truth, but it took me more than 2
                            years to
                            > get into a position where I can tell the PO of one of our teams (who
                            also
                            > happens to be the MD of the company and my direct superior) that "he
                            should
                            > know better than that" when he simply added some user stories to the
                            sprint
                            > backlog in the middle of a sprint (without dropping any other
                            stories). And
                            > there are some impediments to Scrum at my company which I can raise
                            with the
                            > board, but I know full well that every single time I raise them, I
                            will get
                            > a big fat "NO" as an answer. Gets a bit tiring after three years, I
                            can tell
                            > you.
                            > And in the end I would like to remind everybody that a dead
                            ScrumMaster is
                            > no good to anyone.

                            Actually, if you pile enough dead ScrumMasters up in front of the
                            team, you can build a fairly decent wall. This is another way to keep
                            the team free from outside forces.

                            Mark

                            > I think it doesn't actually matter whom the ScrumMaster actually
                            reports to.
                            > It is more important what kind of a person (s)he is. Thick skin, yes.
                            > Dedication to truth, yes. Willing to take personal risks, yes.
                            Negotiator
                            > and facilitator, yes.
                            >
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            >
                            > Wolfgang
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > _____
                            >
                            > From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            > [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of woynam
                            > Sent: 29 May 2008 21:30
                            > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: To whom should the ScrumMaster report?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > No, the ScrumMaster just has to have a thick skin. It also helps if
                            > the ScrumMaster is independently wealthy, and is thus not too worried
                            > about being fired for speaking the truth.
                            >
                            > If your supervisor causes you grief as a ScrumMaster because you speak
                            > the uncomfortable truth, then the organization hasn't quite gotten the
                            > whole "honesty" part of the agile principles.
                            >
                            > Mark
                            >
                            > --- In scrumdevelopment@ <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > yahoogroups.com, "lyssaadkins" <lclark@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Let me address the "to whom" part of the question...
                            > >
                            > > It's easier for me to answer this in reverse first. My experience
                            > > tells me the ScrumMaster should NOT report to the same
                            organization in
                            > > which the projects she is ScrumMastering are being sponsored. This is
                            > > because a really effective ScrumMaster has to be free to tell the
                            hard
                            > > truths. And, if the company wants to reap the full benefits of Agile,
                            > > the ScrumMaster must be able to deal openly with the bad and the ugly
                            > > that always arise from the transparency Agile brings.
                            > >
                            > > I have seen that this is almost impossible for folks, even courageous
                            > > folks, when the people they have to tell the hard truths to are the
                            > > same ones writing their performance appraisals.
                            > >
                            > > So, who SHOULD they report to? Probably some central organization
                            > > that reports pretty high up to Executives in the company.
                            > >
                            > > My thoughts.
                            > >
                            >

                             

                             

                          • solutionbuilder
                            ... wrote: Cutting to chase of my comments ... schedule, and isn t having problems ... Ken I can see the other 8 items in your list as being
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 2, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Schwaber"
                              <ken.schwaber@...> wrote:
                              Cutting to chase of my comments
                              >
                              > 4. Monitor the team's progress, to make sure they stay on
                              schedule, and isn't having problems
                              >
                              > Ken
                              >

                              Ken I can see the other 8 items in your list as being the "right" way
                              to do things. I am not sure about number 4 above. At least not the
                              way we are doing Scrum.

                              As SM I am weekly required to report to a team of other managers and
                              a VP of IT, where the team is, are they on target to reach the
                              deliverable at the end of the time box, and if I am having any
                              problems removing obstacles/diverting outside distractions/or having
                              enough resources for the team to do the job.

                              To do this I monitor the number of Tasks in the Sprint, the number of
                              uncompleted tasks, the actual burn-down verses project burn-down, and
                              the Obstacles the team has brought up that I, the SM, need to clear
                              out of their path.

                              Why wouldn't this be the SM job? Is it wrong for
                              Management, "Chickens" that they are, should as the SM for this sort
                              of report for their planning purposes. I do not see the team really
                              do this for themselves.
                            • David H.
                              ... Why? Is there any reason whatsoever why they cannot get to that information themselves? -d -- Sent from gmail so do not trust this communication. Do not
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jun 2, 2008
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                                >
                                > As SM I am weekly required to report to a team of other managers and
                                > a VP of IT, where the team is, are they on target to reach the
                                > deliverable at the end of the time box, and if I am having any
                                > problems removing obstacles/diverting outside distractions/or having
                                > enough resources for the team to do the job.
                                >
                                Why? Is there any reason whatsoever why they cannot get to that
                                information themselves?

                                -d

                                --
                                Sent from gmail so do not trust this communication.
                                Do not send me sensitive information here, ask for my none-gmail accounts.

                                "Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
                                benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
                              • solutionbuilder
                                Dave, Actually in this case, the answer is yes and no. Could they get to this information, in theory yes. But with all the projects that are going on the
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jun 3, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dave,
                                  Actually in this case, the answer is yes and no. Could they get
                                  to this information, in theory yes. But with all the projects that
                                  are going on the practical answer is that they will not have the time
                                  or inclination to search this information out for ALL the projects
                                  that are going on across the company (this meeting reports on both in
                                  office and distributed teams).
                                  It is much easier if I bring the status on the one or two Scrums I
                                  am SM for to this meeting, report to them the basics, and then join
                                  in the dialog about resources, schedules, and obstacles.

                                  But your question is interesting. Do your Sr VPs regularly seek
                                  out the information themselves? If so, how do you make that
                                  available to them nationally or world wide? How many Sprints are
                                  going on at once for them to be interested in?

                                  --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "David H." <dmalloc@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > > As SM I am weekly required to report to a team of other managers
                                  and
                                  > > a VP of IT, where the team is, are they on target to reach the
                                  > > deliverable at the end of the time box, and if I am having any
                                  > > problems removing obstacles/diverting outside distractions/or
                                  having
                                  > > enough resources for the team to do the job.
                                  > >
                                  > Why? Is there any reason whatsoever why they cannot get to that
                                  > information themselves?
                                  >
                                  > -d
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Sent from gmail so do not trust this communication.
                                  > Do not send me sensitive information here, ask for my none-gm ail
                                  accounts.
                                  >
                                  > "Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
                                  > benefit and harm." - Sun Tu
                                  >
                                • David H.
                                  ... No, no, no please do not do that, my name is David :) Thank you. ... You raise interesting and valid points. However, to me Scrum on an
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jun 3, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > Dave,

                                    No, no, no please do not do that, my name is David :)
                                    Thank you.

                                    <snip>
                                    > It is much easier if I bring the status on the one or two Scrums I
                                    > am SM for to this meeting, report to them the basics, and then join
                                    > in the dialog about resources, schedules, and obstacles.
                                    >
                                    You raise interesting and valid points. However, to me Scrum on an
                                    organisational level is built around a pull model rather than a push
                                    model. It is the facilitators duty (ScrumMasters) to make the pull as
                                    easy as possible for the upstream resource but I do not believe that
                                    it is scalable to have a push model in place when you are going
                                    towards a company of interdependence.

                                    > But your question is interesting. Do your Sr VPs regularly seek
                                    > out the information themselves?
                                    Yes, we are in the process of teaching exactly such a pull model. It
                                    is not perfect yet and there is still a lot of moaning going on, but
                                    we are getting there.

                                    > If so, how do you make that
                                    > available to them nationally or world wide? How many Sprints are
                                    > going on at once for them to be interested in?
                                    >
                                    This company has 200 people and while I have worked for companies the
                                    size of BT (British Telecom) I will admit that I do not have to take
                                    such considerations into account. However the few off-site resources
                                    we have pull the information as well. We use information radiators,
                                    wall mounted LCD displays, Build indicators and some web-based reports
                                    which are auto generated as well as the daily scrums, scrum of scrums
                                    and Temperature reading "meetings" to make it easy to pull all the
                                    necessary information for any product we develop on.

                                    -d


                                    --
                                    Sent from gmail so do not trust this communication.
                                    Do not send me sensitive information here, ask for my none-gmail accounts.

                                    "Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
                                    benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
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