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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?

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  • Sadhanandavel Ramdoss
    Thanks Mr.Mike Regards, Sadhanand ... From: Mike Cohn To: Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004
    Message 1 of 33 , Feb 29, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks Mr.Mike


      Regards,

      Sadhanand


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mike Cohn" <mike@...>
      To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:36 PM
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?


      > On my website I have two basic introductory presentations (PowerPoints
      > available as PDFs). They are at:
      > http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/presentations.php
      >
      > I also have a series of pages describing the process:
      > http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com//scrum
      >
      > Linda Rising wrote a wonderful introduction to Scrum in IEEE Software.
      It's
      > on her site at http://members.cox.net/risingl1/articles/IEEEScrum.pdf
      >
      > Ken Schwaber's website is at http://www.controlchaos.com/ and has a
      plethora
      > of short articles on Scrum.
      >
      > Jeff Sutherland maintains a Scrum blog at
      > http://www.jeffsutherland.com/scrum/.
      >
      > Mike Beedle's publications page lists many great papers:
      > http://www.mikebeedle.com/papers.html
      >
      > Of course, the best introduction is from either of the two books:
      > Agile Software Development with Scrum by Schwaber and Beedle
      > Agile Project Management with Scrum by Schwaber.
      >
      > I suggest starting with my intro pages
      > (http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com//scrum) or Linda's article
      > (http://members.cox.net/risingl1/articles/IEEEScrum.pdf) to see if Scrum
      > appeals to you at all. Then following it up with the books.
      >
      > --Mike
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Sadhanandavel Ramdoss [mailto:sadhawin@...]
      > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:13 AM
      > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > I have joined this recently. Can anyone tell me where can I get a detailed
      > tutorial about Scrum?
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Sadhanandavel Ramdoss
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Ken Schwaber" <ken.schwaber@...>
      > To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 5:55 AM
      > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?
      >
      >
      > > Scrum does use estimates and actuals to improve reliability of
      > > estimates. At the start of a Sprint, the team estimates what it can
      > > do. At the end of the Sprint, the team sees what it was able to do.
      > > Team's regularly improve their estimates so that they can
      > > demonstrate what they committed to. However, this in no way changes
      > > their productivity, just that everyone feels that they are
      > > more "reliable." Mary Poppendieck quoted lean manufacturing
      > > regarding suboptimal measurements. Estimated time to do something
      > > and actual time it took is useful for planning purposes, but
      > > meaningless for tasks or specifications (like stories), because they
      > > are so granular that their complexity outweights attempts to
      > > estimate them regardless of the amount of time analyzing them to
      > > create an estimate. In my experience, if you reward people for
      > > something, they will do it. If you tell them you want esimates to
      > > more closely approximate actuals, they will do it. Will more product
      > > be built, or a better product be built? No, but we'll feel like
      > > things are more under control, which of course they aren't. Watch
      > > out for silver bullets.
      > > KEn
      > >
      > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Cohn" <mike@m...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > There is no point whatsoever to tracking actuals.
      > > >
      > > > The number of interest is how much time is left. If you ask for
      > > actuals then
      > > > people start feeling a subtle pressure that the actual + the time
      > > remaining
      > > > should add to something palatable. Even if you have no intent to
      > > ever do
      > > > this, many people do it themselves or think you're doing it. So,
      > > they tend
      > > > to give artificially low estimates of time remaining.
      > > >
      > > > Plus, why track one more set of numbers?
      > > >
      > > > I calculate velocity on all my Scrum projects (see the chapters on
      > > > "Measuring and Monitoring Velocity" or "Using Stories with Scrum"
      > > in "User
      > > > Stories Applied"). I calculate velocity quite easily without ever
      > > > considering actuals.
      > > >
      > > > --Mike
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: Matt Read [mailto:mread@s...]
      > > > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 3:23 PM
      > > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?
      > > >
      > > > Thanks. It's reassuring to find out that my own attempt wasn't so
      > > much
      > > > different from yours (although yours is a lot prettier). Since
      > > posting I've
      > > > started using XPlanner, which has reduced the time taken for me to
      > > do my
      > > > daily updates quite substantially while still providing the right
      > > > information.
      > > >
      > > > However given that XPlanner is oriented towards XP I seem to be
      > > coming
      > > > across the question of whether to track actuals or not. From my
      > > limited
      > > > understanding of both methodologies it seems that Scrum says no,
      > > XP says
      > > > yes. Scrum seems to put more value on having accurate estimates
      > > for "how
      > > > much is left to do" whereas XP values the ability to measure
      > > velocity. As
      > > > far as I can tell these are conflicting practices. I'm intending to
      > > > experiment with both over the next few iterations to find out
      > > which works
      > > > best for my team but does anyone have any further insight into
      > > this that
      > > > might help?
      > > >
      > > > Thanks,
      > > > Matt.
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@m...]
      > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 17:09
      > > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?
      > > >
      > > > Matt--
      > > > This isn't the same spreadsheet Ken referred to but I have a
      > > sample xls for
      > > > tracking backlog on my site at
      > > > http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/resources.php
      > > >
      > > > --Mike
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: MattRead [mailto:mread@s...]
      > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 9:19 AM
      > > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?
      > > >
      > > > Would it be possible to repost these spreadsheets if you still
      > > have them?
      > > > Yahoo doesn't archive the attachments.
      > > >
      > > > Thanks,
      > > > Matt.
      > > >
      > > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Schwaber"
      > > > <ken.schwaber@v...> wrote:
      > > > > I've attached two spreadsheets that I've accumulated. One from a
      > > > member of
      > > > > the ScrumDevelopment egroup, the other from a customer. One is a
      > > > complete
      > > > > package (product, sprint backlogs and chart), the other is for
      > > > sprint
      > > > > backlogs.
      > > > > Ken
      > > > >
      > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > From: mikeborozdin [mailto:EZXS@F...]
      > > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:19 AM
      > > > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] a task tracking tool for scrum?
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Is there a task tracking tool for scrum? Can you link me to the
      > > page?
      > > > > Thanks! (PS: CC your e-mails to ezxs@f...)
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
      > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > > > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
      > > > >
      > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
      > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
      > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
      > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
      > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Sadhanandavel Ramdoss
      Thanks Mr.Mike Regards, Sadhanand ... From: Mike Cohn To: Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004
      Message 33 of 33 , Feb 29, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks Mr.Mike


        Regards,

        Sadhanand


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Mike Cohn" <mike@...>
        To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:36 PM
        Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?


        > On my website I have two basic introductory presentations (PowerPoints
        > available as PDFs). They are at:
        > http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/presentations.php
        >
        > I also have a series of pages describing the process:
        > http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com//scrum
        >
        > Linda Rising wrote a wonderful introduction to Scrum in IEEE Software.
        It's
        > on her site at http://members.cox.net/risingl1/articles/IEEEScrum.pdf
        >
        > Ken Schwaber's website is at http://www.controlchaos.com/ and has a
        plethora
        > of short articles on Scrum.
        >
        > Jeff Sutherland maintains a Scrum blog at
        > http://www.jeffsutherland.com/scrum/.
        >
        > Mike Beedle's publications page lists many great papers:
        > http://www.mikebeedle.com/papers.html
        >
        > Of course, the best introduction is from either of the two books:
        > Agile Software Development with Scrum by Schwaber and Beedle
        > Agile Project Management with Scrum by Schwaber.
        >
        > I suggest starting with my intro pages
        > (http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com//scrum) or Linda's article
        > (http://members.cox.net/risingl1/articles/IEEEScrum.pdf) to see if Scrum
        > appeals to you at all. Then following it up with the books.
        >
        > --Mike
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Sadhanandavel Ramdoss [mailto:sadhawin@...]
        > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:13 AM
        > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I have joined this recently. Can anyone tell me where can I get a detailed
        > tutorial about Scrum?
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Sadhanandavel Ramdoss
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Ken Schwaber" <ken.schwaber@...>
        > To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 5:55 AM
        > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?
        >
        >
        > > Scrum does use estimates and actuals to improve reliability of
        > > estimates. At the start of a Sprint, the team estimates what it can
        > > do. At the end of the Sprint, the team sees what it was able to do.
        > > Team's regularly improve their estimates so that they can
        > > demonstrate what they committed to. However, this in no way changes
        > > their productivity, just that everyone feels that they are
        > > more "reliable." Mary Poppendieck quoted lean manufacturing
        > > regarding suboptimal measurements. Estimated time to do something
        > > and actual time it took is useful for planning purposes, but
        > > meaningless for tasks or specifications (like stories), because they
        > > are so granular that their complexity outweights attempts to
        > > estimate them regardless of the amount of time analyzing them to
        > > create an estimate. In my experience, if you reward people for
        > > something, they will do it. If you tell them you want esimates to
        > > more closely approximate actuals, they will do it. Will more product
        > > be built, or a better product be built? No, but we'll feel like
        > > things are more under control, which of course they aren't. Watch
        > > out for silver bullets.
        > > KEn
        > >
        > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Cohn" <mike@m...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > There is no point whatsoever to tracking actuals.
        > > >
        > > > The number of interest is how much time is left. If you ask for
        > > actuals then
        > > > people start feeling a subtle pressure that the actual + the time
        > > remaining
        > > > should add to something palatable. Even if you have no intent to
        > > ever do
        > > > this, many people do it themselves or think you're doing it. So,
        > > they tend
        > > > to give artificially low estimates of time remaining.
        > > >
        > > > Plus, why track one more set of numbers?
        > > >
        > > > I calculate velocity on all my Scrum projects (see the chapters on
        > > > "Measuring and Monitoring Velocity" or "Using Stories with Scrum"
        > > in "User
        > > > Stories Applied"). I calculate velocity quite easily without ever
        > > > considering actuals.
        > > >
        > > > --Mike
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: Matt Read [mailto:mread@s...]
        > > > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 3:23 PM
        > > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?
        > > >
        > > > Thanks. It's reassuring to find out that my own attempt wasn't so
        > > much
        > > > different from yours (although yours is a lot prettier). Since
        > > posting I've
        > > > started using XPlanner, which has reduced the time taken for me to
        > > do my
        > > > daily updates quite substantially while still providing the right
        > > > information.
        > > >
        > > > However given that XPlanner is oriented towards XP I seem to be
        > > coming
        > > > across the question of whether to track actuals or not. From my
        > > limited
        > > > understanding of both methodologies it seems that Scrum says no,
        > > XP says
        > > > yes. Scrum seems to put more value on having accurate estimates
        > > for "how
        > > > much is left to do" whereas XP values the ability to measure
        > > velocity. As
        > > > far as I can tell these are conflicting practices. I'm intending to
        > > > experiment with both over the next few iterations to find out
        > > which works
        > > > best for my team but does anyone have any further insight into
        > > this that
        > > > might help?
        > > >
        > > > Thanks,
        > > > Matt.
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@m...]
        > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 17:09
        > > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?
        > > >
        > > > Matt--
        > > > This isn't the same spreadsheet Ken referred to but I have a
        > > sample xls for
        > > > tracking backlog on my site at
        > > > http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/resources.php
        > > >
        > > > --Mike
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: MattRead [mailto:mread@s...]
        > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 9:19 AM
        > > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: a task tracking tool for scrum?
        > > >
        > > > Would it be possible to repost these spreadsheets if you still
        > > have them?
        > > > Yahoo doesn't archive the attachments.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks,
        > > > Matt.
        > > >
        > > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Schwaber"
        > > > <ken.schwaber@v...> wrote:
        > > > > I've attached two spreadsheets that I've accumulated. One from a
        > > > member of
        > > > > the ScrumDevelopment egroup, the other from a customer. One is a
        > > > complete
        > > > > package (product, sprint backlogs and chart), the other is for
        > > > sprint
        > > > > backlogs.
        > > > > Ken
        > > > >
        > > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > > From: mikeborozdin [mailto:EZXS@F...]
        > > > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 3:19 AM
        > > > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] a task tracking tool for scrum?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Is there a task tracking tool for scrum? Can you link me to the
        > > page?
        > > > > Thanks! (PS: CC your e-mails to ezxs@f...)
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
        > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > > > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
        > > > >
        > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
        > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
        > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
        > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > > > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@e...
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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