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Two articles in ComputerWorld

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  • Mike Cohn
    FYI: Two articles from the last week that were linked in the ComputerWorld daily news. XP, Scrum join forces:
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 20, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      FYI:

      Two articles from the last week that were linked in the ComputerWorld
      daily news.

      XP, Scrum join forces:
      http://www.computerworld.com/itresources/rcstory/0,4167,KEY11_STO69183,0
      0.html


      Agile programming techniques spark interest:
      http://www.computerworld.com/itresources/rcstory/0,4167,KEY11_STO69079,0
      0.html
    • Ken Schwaber
      Thanks ... I hate being interviewed! Ken ... From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@mountaingoatsoftware.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:03 PM To:
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 20, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks ... I hate being interviewed!
        Ken

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:03 PM
        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Two articles in ComputerWorld


        FYI:

        Two articles from the last week that were linked in the ComputerWorld
        daily news.

        XP, Scrum join forces:
        http://www.computerworld.com/itresources/rcstory/0,4167,KEY11_STO69183,0
        0.html


        Agile programming techniques spark interest:
        http://www.computerworld.com/itresources/rcstory/0,4167,KEY11_STO69079,0
        0.html







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      • Mike Beedle
        Mike: Thanks for the infor, Ken: Good going. That s great, - Mike ... From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 20, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Mike:
           
          Thanks for the infor,
           
          Ken:
           
          Good going.  That's great,
           
          - Mike
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 1:37 PM
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Two articles in ComputerWorld

          Thanks ... I hate being interviewed!
          Ken

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:03 PM
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Two articles in ComputerWorld


          FYI:

          Two articles from the last week that were linked in the ComputerWorld
          daily news.

          XP, Scrum join forces:
          http://www.computerworld.com/itresources/rcstory/0,4167,KEY11_STO69183,0
          0.html


          Agile programming techniques spark interest:
          http://www.computerworld.com/itresources/rcstory/0,4167,KEY11_STO69079,0
          0.html







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          To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





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        • Lowell Lindstrom
          It is great PR, so, yes, great going. But, boy, did those articles lack substance. I didn t read anything that would compell me to change what I am doing
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 21, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            It is great PR, so, yes, great going.

            But, boy, did those articles lack substance. I didn't read anything that
            would compell me to change what I am doing today.

            As I read the increasing amount of press on Agile methods, I am increasing
            disallusioned by the quality of the what is being said. How do we get these
            writers to understand what is really going on here? That it is not simply a
            bunch of consultants that have figured out how to sell something new, but
            rather a fundamental shift in the way that software is being written and
            ultimately a shift in how software driven businesses will operate.

            Again, it is a great start, but there so much more substance to report on.
            How do we get that out there?

            Lowell

            ================
            Lowell Lindstrom
            Object Mentor, Inc | www.objectmentor.com | 1-800-338-6716
            lindstrom@...
            Office: 847-573-1565 x20 Fax: 847-573-1565
            Cell: 847-732-9330
          • Ken Schwaber
            Right on the head!! Well said!!! I couldn t believe it when the Computerworld editor told me that everyone at Giga said, Well, we already do that, same old
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 21, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Right on the head!! Well said!!! I couldn't believe it when the
              Computerworld editor told me that everyone at Giga said, "Well, we already
              do that, same old stuff, some interesting ideas, but..." Reminds me of
              Rational and saying that RUP is agile. They are definitely lightening RUP,
              which is always good, but it missed the shift to agile to which you refer. I
              thought I was pretty blunt at the Giga conference in a panel discussion, but
              even with that they missed it.

              I'm working on a new speech which I'll call, "Well, we already that that",
              and see if I can get any more direct. However, I still get most of Scrum
              implementations where the current project has failed; people seem to operate
              better in desperation rather than with foresight.

              Ken

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Lowell Lindstrom [mailto:lindstrom@...]
              Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:09 AM
              To: 'scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com'
              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld


              It is great PR, so, yes, great going.

              But, boy, did those articles lack substance. I didn't read anything that
              would compell me to change what I am doing today.

              As I read the increasing amount of press on Agile methods, I am increasing
              disallusioned by the quality of the what is being said. How do we get these
              writers to understand what is really going on here? That it is not simply a
              bunch of consultants that have figured out how to sell something new, but
              rather a fundamental shift in the way that software is being written and
              ultimately a shift in how software driven businesses will operate.

              Again, it is a great start, but there so much more substance to report on.
              How do we get that out there?

              Lowell

              ================
              Lowell Lindstrom
              Object Mentor, Inc | www.objectmentor.com | 1-800-338-6716
              lindstrom@...
              Office: 847-573-1565 x20 Fax: 847-573-1565
              Cell: 847-732-9330





              To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

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            • Mike Cohn
              Best would be getting Ken to go on the Oprah show. I make all my technology decisions based on advice from Oprah. Perhaps if we all emailed Oprah with the
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 21, 2002
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                Best would be getting Ken to go on the Oprah show. I make all my technology decisions based on advice from Oprah. Perhaps if we all emailed Oprah with the request to hear more about agile methods on her show…

                 

                More seriously, though: There are always going to be the little pieces of fluff article and I actually think they serve a purpose. The more one reads about Scrum (etc) the more weight it will have in that person’s mind when he reads the article that is capable of convincing him to use Scrum. I worked with one CEO who actually made his company’s technology decision (to use the Forte language, back before Forte was a Java IDE and had its own language, TOOL) based on article he read while on an airplane. When the time is right, the right article will be convincing but largely because the person is receptive to the idea from having already read or heard about the concept numerous times.

                 

                Scrum/Agile Methods have had a lot of coverage over the past year—I’ve been amazed on how much coverage there has been in IEEE journals (Computer, Software) and I think there was coverage in CACM as well. What I’d love to see next would be a short article in a non-computer magazine like Business Week or Fortune. Even if the article had only a little substance it gets read by top decision-makers. Agile methods start to really take off when CEOs are going to the Engineering VPs saying, “Why aren’t we doing this agile stuff? I want our products better and faster! Now go wash my car and then start doing this agile stuff!”

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Lowell Lindstrom [mailto:lindstrom@...]
                Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:09 AM
                To: 'scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com'
                Subject: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld

                 

                It is great PR, so, yes, great going.

                But, boy, did those articles lack substance.  I didn't read anything that
                would compell me to change what I am doing today.

                As I read the increasing amount of press on Agile methods, I am increasing
                disallusioned by the quality of the what is being said.  How do we get these
                writers to understand what is really going on here?  That it is not simply a
                bunch of consultants that have figured out how to sell something new, but
                rather a fundamental shift in the way that software is being written and
                ultimately a shift in how software driven businesses will operate. 

                Again, it is a great start, but there so much more substance to report on.
                How do we get that out there?

                Lowell

                ================
                Lowell Lindstrom
                Object Mentor, Inc | www.objectmentor.com | 1-800-338-6716
                lindstrom@...
                Office: 847-573-1565 x20   Fax:  847-573-1565
                Cell: 847-732-9330





                To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
                To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...


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              • Mike Cohn
                Ken- Why do you think it is that so many people have that reaction ( sounds good, but we already do that ) to Scrum? I ve thought about it a little bit before
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 21, 2002
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                  Ken—

                   

                  Why do you think it is that so many people have that reaction (“sounds good, but we already do that”) to Scrum?

                   

                  I’ve thought about it a little bit before and here are a couple of the reasons I think people react that way. I’m curious to hear what you or others think because you are right that this is a very common reaction.

                   

                   

                  a)       People always react that way to something intuitive when it’s heard for the first time. We’ve probably all experienced this before—something so obvious that you didn’t know it is explained to you and then you can’t imagine not having known it.

                  b)       With Scrum there are more things to stop doing than there are to do. Hence your book is 150 pages and Jacobsen’s on RUP is 460 pages. When told what Scrum is, people react with “Yeah, I do that AND MORE!!”  The “and more” is what they don’t realize gets them in trouble and away from agile. (I’d say it makes them non-agile, but Cockburn would turn his pet tiger loose on me.)

                  c)       They just don’t get it. I’ve had numerous discussions with people as to why Scrum isn’t just a series of one month trips around a spiral or why it isn’t the same as incremental delivery.

                   

                   

                  --Mike

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 8:18 AM
                  To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld

                   

                  Right on the head!! Well said!!! I couldn't believe it when the
                  Computerworld editor told me that everyone at Giga said, "Well, we already
                  do that, same old stuff, some interesting ideas, but..." Reminds me of
                  Rational and saying that RUP is agile. They are definitely lightening RUP,
                  which is always good, but it missed the shift to agile to which you refer. I
                  thought I was pretty blunt at the Giga conference in a panel discussion, but
                  even with that they missed it.

                  I'm working on a new speech which I'll call, "Well, we already that that",
                  and see if I can get any more direct. However, I still get most of Scrum
                  implementations where the current project has failed; people seem to operate
                  better in desperation rather than with foresight.

                  Ken

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Lowell Lindstrom [mailto:lindstrom@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:09 AM
                  To: 'scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com'
                  Subject: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld


                  It is great PR, so, yes, great going.

                  But, boy, did those articles lack substance.  I didn't read anything that
                  would compell me to change what I am doing today.

                  As I read the increasing amount of press on Agile methods, I am increasing
                  disallusioned by the quality of the what is being said.  How do we get these
                  writers to understand what is really going on here?  That it is not simply a
                  bunch of consultants that have figured out how to sell something new, but
                  rather a fundamental shift in the way that software is being written and
                  ultimately a shift in how software driven businesses will operate.

                  Again, it is a great start, but there so much more substance to report on.
                  How do we get that out there?

                  Lowell

                  ================
                  Lowell Lindstrom
                  Object Mentor, Inc | www.objectmentor.com | 1-800-338-6716
                  lindstrom@...
                  Office: 847-573-1565 x20   Fax:  847-573-1565
                  Cell: 847-732-9330





                  To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
                  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





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                • Narsu, Uttam
                  Ken, I presume that you mean the attendees at the Giga conference , rather than everyone at Giga ! I certainly do not subscribe to the view that Agile
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 21, 2002
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                    Ken, I presume that you mean "the attendees at the Giga conference", rather
                    than "everyone at Giga"! I certainly do not subscribe to the view that Agile
                    methods are just the same old stuff repackaged, and neither does my
                    co-presenter Liz Barnett. In fact, we made that quite clear at the
                    presentation we gave the next day (sadly after you had already left the
                    conference).

                    I think a better point Carol could have emphasized is the tremendous
                    interest in Agile methods. At the time of Liz's and my presentation, we were
                    running two tracks, one a geek track and one a process/management track. Our
                    talk on Agile methods packed the room, and outdrew the geek track, which is
                    the inverse of what happened last year.

                    In part, the "we do that, same old stuff" is not what I would have focus on.
                    That attitude actually creates an easier sell to management, because
                    people's minds are already half in agreement. I think the more problematic
                    issue is why there is greater resistance in mainstream corporate North
                    America (as opposed to the UK) over the value of Agile methods. In part,
                    it's due to concern about the maturity of the ideas, but the greater part is
                    due to the (still) prevalent view that one process can fit for all roles and
                    all projects.

                    Once that view is questioned (and I think Alastair Cockburn's work really
                    hits home there), then the perception of Agile methods will change.

                    P.S. Thanks for helping make the panel (Ken Schwaber, Martin Fowler, Jeff
                    Bitner, Dale Churchett) a real highlight of the conference!

                    Uttam

                    --
                    Uttam M. Narsu
                    Vice President, Giga Information Group
                    139 Main Street, 4th Floor
                    Cambridge, MA 02142
                    617-577-4730 617-577-4906 (fax)
                    unarsu@... <mailto:unarsu@...>


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:18 AM
                    To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld


                    Right on the head!! Well said!!! I couldn't believe it when the
                    Computerworld editor told me that everyone at Giga said, "Well, we already
                    do that, same old stuff, some interesting ideas, but..." Reminds me of
                    Rational and saying that RUP is agile. They are definitely lightening RUP,
                    which is always good, but it missed the shift to agile to which you refer. I
                    thought I was pretty blunt at the Giga conference in a panel discussion, but
                    even with that they missed it.

                    I'm working on a new speech which I'll call, "Well, we already that that",
                    and see if I can get any more direct. However, I still get most of Scrum
                    implementations where the current project has failed; people seem to operate
                    better in desperation rather than with foresight.

                    Ken

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Lowell Lindstrom [mailto:lindstrom@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:09 AM
                    To: 'scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com'
                    Subject: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld


                    It is great PR, so, yes, great going.

                    But, boy, did those articles lack substance. I didn't read anything that
                    would compell me to change what I am doing today.

                    As I read the increasing amount of press on Agile methods, I am increasing
                    disallusioned by the quality of the what is being said. How do we get these
                    writers to understand what is really going on here? That it is not simply a
                    bunch of consultants that have figured out how to sell something new, but
                    rather a fundamental shift in the way that software is being written and
                    ultimately a shift in how software driven businesses will operate.

                    Again, it is a great start, but there so much more substance to report on.
                    How do we get that out there?

                    Lowell

                    ================
                    Lowell Lindstrom
                    Object Mentor, Inc | www.objectmentor.com | 1-800-338-6716
                    lindstrom@...
                    Office: 847-573-1565 x20 Fax: 847-573-1565
                    Cell: 847-732-9330





                    To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                    To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                    scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





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                    To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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                  • Ken Schwaber
                    Uttam and Mike, I know, we get so much excitement, but we re definitely at the early adopter stage. Alistair Cockburn did help get an article in the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 21, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Uttam and Mike,
                      I know, we get so much excitement, but we're definitely at the "early
                      adopter" stage. Alistair Cockburn did help get an article in the Economist
                      (pretty mainstream, there) in late September, but that didn't seem to have
                      much of an impact. I really like the idea of the CEO asking the CIO to wash
                      the car before doing an agile project, especially since he has so much extra
                      time. Whew, enough sarcasm.

                      I think Mike has some excellent points about why people tend to dismiss
                      agile. I think the IT personality also plays into the picture: we want to
                      act like we know what we're doing, have it covered, not to worry. This has
                      been a pretty important cover story while we scramble to find out what
                      really is going on. More resistance probably arises from the number of
                      silver bullets that have been announced in our lifetimes; we get jaded.

                      I was presenting Scrum to the management of a project that was purported to
                      be in trouble; the technical architects understood and were all for it, the
                      regular project and program managers were all for pretending that they were
                      already doing it. I detected fear, fear of changing from something that they
                      knew how to work, to something that was radically different and might be
                      uncontrollable. I find that unless you have experienced the "agile epiphany"
                      it is really hard to understand.

                      Ross Taylor of TransCanada and I jointly wrote an article for Software
                      Development Magazine (to be published in June) that describes this epiphany.
                      I writing the article, I realized that there are several defining moments
                      when the people really get it:

                      Agile processes have several defining moments. When these happen, I know
                      everything is going well and the expected benefits will result. At these
                      moments, tkey participants really "get it." These key participants are the
                      business project manager, the IT project manager, and the development
                      team(s). These moments include:
                      1. The business project manager realizing that it's ok to proceed without
                      all of the requirements being defined.
                      2. The business project manager seeing a product increment demonstrated at
                      the end of each of the several Sprints. They realize that their involvement
                      was important and had an immediate, tangible result. They also realize that
                      the project will be successful and deliver them something they want and
                      need.
                      3. A team member realizing that someone will help when problems occur. After
                      identifying an impediment or problem during a daily Scrum, either the
                      ScrumMaster or a fellow team member provides immediate help to him or her.
                      4. The IT project manager sensing teamwork after walking through a
                      co-located team area where pair programming is going on. The buzz, energy,
                      and focus are palpable.
                      5. The business and IT Project Managers realizing they don't have to tell
                      the team what to do and ensure that it does it.
                      The team when it realizes that no one is going to tell it what to do; the
                      team has to figure out what work to do on its own.

                      Ken

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Narsu, Uttam [mailto:UNarsu@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:47 AM
                      To: 'scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com'
                      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld


                      Ken, I presume that you mean "the attendees at the Giga conference", rather
                      than "everyone at Giga"! I certainly do not subscribe to the view that Agile
                      methods are just the same old stuff repackaged, and neither does my
                      co-presenter Liz Barnett. In fact, we made that quite clear at the
                      presentation we gave the next day (sadly after you had already left the
                      conference).

                      I think a better point Carol could have emphasized is the tremendous
                      interest in Agile methods. At the time of Liz's and my presentation, we were
                      running two tracks, one a geek track and one a process/management track. Our
                      talk on Agile methods packed the room, and outdrew the geek track, which is
                      the inverse of what happened last year.

                      In part, the "we do that, same old stuff" is not what I would have focus on.
                      That attitude actually creates an easier sell to management, because
                      people's minds are already half in agreement. I think the more problematic
                      issue is why there is greater resistance in mainstream corporate North
                      America (as opposed to the UK) over the value of Agile methods. In part,
                      it's due to concern about the maturity of the ideas, but the greater part is
                      due to the (still) prevalent view that one process can fit for all roles and
                      all projects.

                      Once that view is questioned (and I think Alastair Cockburn's work really
                      hits home there), then the perception of Agile methods will change.

                      P.S. Thanks for helping make the panel (Ken Schwaber, Martin Fowler, Jeff
                      Bitner, Dale Churchett) a real highlight of the conference!

                      Uttam

                      --
                      Uttam M. Narsu
                      Vice President, Giga Information Group
                      139 Main Street, 4th Floor
                      Cambridge, MA 02142
                      617-577-4730 617-577-4906 (fax)
                      unarsu@... <mailto:unarsu@...>


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:18 AM
                      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld


                      Right on the head!! Well said!!! I couldn't believe it when the
                      Computerworld editor told me that everyone at Giga said, "Well, we already
                      do that, same old stuff, some interesting ideas, but..." Reminds me of
                      Rational and saying that RUP is agile. They are definitely lightening RUP,
                      which is always good, but it missed the shift to agile to which you refer. I
                      thought I was pretty blunt at the Giga conference in a panel discussion, but
                      even with that they missed it.

                      I'm working on a new speech which I'll call, "Well, we already that that",
                      and see if I can get any more direct. However, I still get most of Scrum
                      implementations where the current project has failed; people seem to operate
                      better in desperation rather than with foresight.

                      Ken

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Lowell Lindstrom [mailto:lindstrom@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:09 AM
                      To: 'scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com'
                      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld


                      It is great PR, so, yes, great going.

                      But, boy, did those articles lack substance. I didn't read anything that
                      would compell me to change what I am doing today.

                      As I read the increasing amount of press on Agile methods, I am increasing
                      disallusioned by the quality of the what is being said. How do we get these
                      writers to understand what is really going on here? That it is not simply a
                      bunch of consultants that have figured out how to sell something new, but
                      rather a fundamental shift in the way that software is being written and
                      ultimately a shift in how software driven businesses will operate.

                      Again, it is a great start, but there so much more substance to report on.
                      How do we get that out there?

                      Lowell

                      ================
                      Lowell Lindstrom
                      Object Mentor, Inc | www.objectmentor.com | 1-800-338-6716
                      lindstrom@...
                      Office: 847-573-1565 x20 Fax: 847-573-1565
                      Cell: 847-732-9330





                      To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
                      To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





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                    • Mike Cohn
                      Ken- I really like that list of epiphanies. You are right that things are starting to go well when these occur. I d probably add two: 1a) you mention the
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 21, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Ken—

                        I really like that list of epiphanies. You are right that things are starting to go well when these occur. I’d probably add two:

                         

                        1a) you mention the business project manager deciding it’s OK to proceed without complete requirements but I think this also needs to come as an epiphany to programmers. I have had many programmers fight this concept (“I’ll just end up rewriting this” or “I’ll go ask for a lot more detail” or “I’ll build in flexibility to cover both cases”)

                         

                        6) When a team stops seeming like “testers and programmers” and just “developers”. This sometimes happens on agile projects but never seems to on non-agile projects (here comes that tiger again).

                         

                        I’m looking forward to your article.

                         

                        --Mike

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:24 AM
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld

                         

                        Uttam and Mike,
                        I know, we get so much excitement, but we're definitely at the "early
                        adopter" stage. Alistair Cockburn did help get an article in the Economist
                        (pretty mainstream, there) in late September, but that didn't seem to have
                        much of an impact. I really like the idea of the CEO asking the CIO to wash
                        the car before doing an agile project, especially since he has so much extra
                        time. Whew, enough sarcasm.

                        I think Mike has some excellent points about why people tend to dismiss
                        agile. I think the IT personality also plays into the picture: we want to
                        act like we know what we're doing, have it covered, not to worry. This has
                        been a pretty important cover story while we scramble to find out what
                        really is going on. More resistance probably arises from the number of
                        silver bullets that have been announced in our lifetimes; we get jaded.

                        I was presenting Scrum to the management of a project that was purported to
                        be in trouble; the technical architects understood and were all for it, the
                        regular project and program managers were all for pretending that they were
                        already doing it. I detected fear, fear of changing from something that they
                        knew how to work, to something that was radically different and might be
                        uncontrollable. I find that unless you have experienced the "agile epiphany"
                        it is really hard to understand.

                        Ross Taylor of TransCanada and I jointly wrote an article for Software
                        Development Magazine (to be published in June) that describes this epiphany.
                        I writing the article, I realized that there are several defining moments
                        when the people really get it:

                        Agile processes have several defining moments. When these happen, I know
                        everything is going well and  the expected benefits will result. At these
                        moments, tkey participants really "get it." These key participants are the
                        business project manager, the IT project manager, and the development
                        team(s). These moments include:
                        1.      The business project manager realizing that it's ok to proceed without
                        all of the requirements being defined.
                        2.      The business project manager seeing a product increment demonstrated at
                        the end of each of the several Sprints. They realize that their involvement
                        was important and had an immediate, tangible result. They also realize that
                        the project will be successful and deliver them something they want and
                        need.
                        3.      A team member realizing that someone will help when problems occur. After
                        identifying an impediment or problem during a daily Scrum, either the
                        ScrumMaster or a fellow team member provides immediate help to him or her.
                        4.      The IT project manager sensing teamwork after walking through a
                        co-located team area where pair programming is going on. The buzz, energy,
                        and focus are palpable.
                        5.      The business and IT Project Managers realizing they don't have to tell
                        the team what to do and ensure that it does it.
                        The team when it realizes that no one is going to tell it what to do; the
                        team has to figure out what work to do on its own.

                        Ken

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Narsu, Uttam [mailto:UNarsu@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:47 AM
                        To: 'scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com'
                        Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld


                        Ken, I presume that you mean "the attendees at the Giga conference", rather
                        than "everyone at Giga"! I certainly do not subscribe to the view that Agile
                        methods are just the same old stuff repackaged, and neither does my
                        co-presenter Liz Barnett. In fact, we made that quite clear at the
                        presentation we gave the next day (sadly after you had already left the
                        conference).

                        I think a better point Carol could have emphasized is the tremendous
                        interest in Agile methods. At the time of Liz's and my presentation, we were
                        running two tracks, one a geek track and one a process/management track. Our
                        talk on Agile methods packed the room, and outdrew the geek track, which is
                        the inverse of what happened last year.

                        In part, the "we do that, same old stuff" is not what I would have focus on.
                        That attitude actually creates an easier sell to management, because
                        people's minds are already half in agreement. I think the more problematic
                        issue is why there is greater resistance in mainstream corporate North
                        America (as opposed to the UK) over the value of Agile methods. In part,
                        it's due to concern about the maturity of the ideas, but the greater part is
                        due to the (still) prevalent view that one process can fit for all roles and
                        all projects.

                        Once that view is questioned (and I think Alastair Cockburn's work really
                        hits home there), then the perception of Agile methods will change.

                        P.S. Thanks for helping make the panel (Ken Schwaber, Martin Fowler, Jeff
                        Bitner, Dale Churchett) a real highlight of the conference!

                        Uttam

                        --
                        Uttam M. Narsu
                        Vice President, Giga Information Group
                        139 Main Street, 4th Floor
                        Cambridge, MA   02142
                        617-577-4730    617-577-4906 (fax)
                        unarsu@... <mailto:unarsu@...>


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:18 AM
                        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld


                        Right on the head!! Well said!!! I couldn't believe it when the
                        Computerworld editor told me that everyone at Giga said, "Well, we already
                        do that, same old stuff, some interesting ideas, but..." Reminds me of
                        Rational and saying that RUP is agile. They are definitely lightening RUP,
                        which is always good, but it missed the shift to agile to which you refer. I
                        thought I was pretty blunt at the Giga conference in a panel discussion, but
                        even with that they missed it.

                        I'm working on a new speech which I'll call, "Well, we already that that",
                        and see if I can get any more direct. However, I still get most of Scrum
                        implementations where the current project has failed; people seem to operate
                        better in desperation rather than with foresight.

                        Ken

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Lowell Lindstrom [mailto:lindstrom@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:09 AM
                        To: 'scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com'
                        Subject: [scrumdevelopment] RE: Two articles in ComputerWorld


                        It is great PR, so, yes, great going.

                        But, boy, did those articles lack substance.  I didn't read anything that
                        would compell me to change what I am doing today.

                        As I read the increasing amount of press on Agile methods, I am increasing
                        disallusioned by the quality of the what is being said.  How do we get these
                        writers to understand what is really going on here?  That it is not simply a
                        bunch of consultants that have figured out how to sell something new, but
                        rather a fundamental shift in the way that software is being written and
                        ultimately a shift in how software driven businesses will operate.

                        Again, it is a great start, but there so much more substance to report on.
                        How do we get that out there?

                        Lowell

                        ================
                        Lowell Lindstrom
                        Object Mentor, Inc | www.objectmentor.com | 1-800-338-6716
                        lindstrom@...
                        Office: 847-573-1565 x20   Fax:  847-573-1565
                        Cell: 847-732-9330





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