Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Scrum history

Expand Messages
  • mpoppendieck
    Mike, this is wonderful stuff. Thanks for writing it. I wonder why you use the term `negative feedback loop? Having been a control engineer, I recall that we
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 20, 2002
      Mike, this is wonderful stuff. Thanks for writing it.

      I wonder why you use the term `negative' feedback loop?
      Having been a control engineer, I recall that we always called these
      things `feedback' loops, without the term `negative'.

      I think there is an additional reason why SCRUM works so well.
      There is a great book by Barry Oshry called "Seeing Systems"
      which discusses how people generally do not see themselves in
      relationship to the whole or in relationship with other groups in
      the whole. What a SCRUM meeting does is force everyone to consider
      the reality of others.

      I have been working with people at the Lean Construction Institute
      (LCI), and have seen how they use this principle. A building is
      built by many self-organizing teams (they are called crews). Each
      trade has at least one crew, and each crew has a crew chief. LCI
      recommends that these `planners', as crew chiefs are called,
      hold a `Planner' meeting each week and commit to each
      other what their crews will get done the following week. This is
      very similar to the `Scrum of Scrums'.

      LCI claims that the weekly `Planner' meeting works for two
      reasons:

      First, commitments are made between planners, and people honor the
      commitments they make to each other. Traditionally, a schedule
      is `imposed' rather than committed to, and people feel little
      obligation to meet an imposed schedule.

      Second, variability is removed because each crew knows that it can
      count on the previous crew to be done with prerequisite work, and
      that it will have the materials and tools that it needs. You would
      think these things would not be a problem, but in traditional
      construction practices, crews do not look out for the needs of other
      crews; they don't even look out for their own needs very much in
      advance. LCI claims that it is the removal of variability through
      foresight and mutual commitment that allows for a waste-free, rapid
      flow of work.

      The results they achieve are remarkable.

      Cheers!

      Mary Poppendieck
    • Mike Beedle
      ... I borrowed this terminology mainly from Electronics and Biology but you are right, I am not sure that it is used in process control. The distinction is
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 20, 2002
        Mary:

        >I wonder why you use the term `negative' feedback loop?
        >Having been a control engineer, I recall that we always called these
        >things `feedback' loops, without the term `negative'.

        I borrowed this terminology mainly from Electronics and Biology but
        you are right, I am not sure that it is used in process control.

        The distinction is important because each one leads to very
        different behaviors:

        negative feedback -- asymptotically controls
        or adjusts one or more variables,

        as opposed to:

        "positive feedback", which exponential grows variables

        In Electronics, we try to avoid "positive loops" because they
        tend to burn transistors and chips. In Biology, most homeostatic
        or autonomic controls are based on negative feedback as well:
        control of sugars, proteins, enzymes, etc. But in Finance we
        like positive feedback loops with saturation: IPO Stock markets
        in 2000.

        Senge has some nice archetypes for feedback as related to people
        in "The 5th Discipline".


        > I think there is an additional reason why SCRUM works so well.
        > There is a great book by Barry Oshry called "Seeing Systems"
        > which discusses how people generally do not see themselves in
        > relationship to the whole or in relationship with other groups in
        > the whole. What a SCRUM meeting does is force everyone to consider
        > the reality of others.

        Great point.

        > LCI recommends that these `planners', as crew chiefs are called,
        > hold a `Planner' meeting each week and commit to each
        > other what their crews will get done the following week. This is
        > very similar to the `Scrum of Scrums'.
        [snip]
        > First, commitments are made between planners, and people honor the
        > commitments they make to each other. etc.
        [snip]
        > Second, variability is removed because each crew knows that it can
        > count on the previous crew to be done with prerequisite work, and
        > that it will have the materials and tools that it needs.

        Interesting. Those are some of the same claims that we make
        in Scrum in relation to the "Scrum of Scrums" process,

        - Mike
      • Jonas Bengtsson
        ... I just got the book The knowledge-creating company by Takeuchi and Nonaka. Are there any references to Scrum within that book? (I can t find it in the
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 9, 2002
          Mike Cohn wrote:
          > To my knowledge, Scrum was first documented by Hirotaka Takeuchi and
          > Ikujiro Nonaka in 1986 in Harvard Business Review (Jan/Feb issue)

          I just got the book "The knowledge-creating company" by Takeuchi and Nonaka.
          Are there any references to Scrum within that book? (I can't find it in the
          index...)


          Jonas
        • Mike Beedle
          ... Nonaka. ... Jonas: There might be more references but here are some: pgs. 78 (figure 3.7), 81 (middle of the page), 210, 211 (Rugby and American
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 9, 2002
            > Jonas Bengtsson [mailto:jonas.b@...]
            >Mike Cohn wrote:
            >> To my knowledge, Scrum was first documented by Hirotaka Takeuchi and
            >> Ikujiro Nonaka in 1986 in Harvard Business Review (Jan/Feb issue)
            >
            >I just got the book "The knowledge-creating company" by Takeuchi and
            Nonaka.
            >Are there any references to Scrum within that book? (I can't find it in the
            >index...)

            Jonas:

            There might be more references but here are some:

            pgs. 78 (figure 3.7),
            81 (middle of the page),
            210, 211 (Rugby and "American Football")
            255 (actual reference),
            etc.


            - Mike
            http://www.livingmetaphor.org
            http://www.agilescrum.com
            http://www.xbreed.net
          • Ken Schwaber
            In the preface they make reference to rugby and passing the ball around, but I don t think there are any more specific references to scrums Ken ... From: Jonas
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 9, 2002
              In the preface they make reference to rugby and passing the ball around, but
              I don't think there are any more specific references to scrums
              Ken

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Jonas Bengtsson [mailto:jonas.b@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 6:46 AM
              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum history


              Mike Cohn wrote:
              > To my knowledge, Scrum was first documented by Hirotaka Takeuchi and
              > Ikujiro Nonaka in 1986 in Harvard Business Review (Jan/Feb issue)

              I just got the book "The knowledge-creating company" by Takeuchi and Nonaka.
              Are there any references to Scrum within that book? (I can't find it in the
              index...)


              Jonas



              To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Jonas Bengtsson
              Mike, Thanks for the references. (I ve not had the time to look them up until now). I ll try finding the original article. Jonas ... From: Mike Beedle
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 15, 2002
                Mike,
                Thanks for the references. (I've not had the time to look them up until now).
                 
                I'll try finding the "original" article.
                 
                Jonas
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Mike Beedle [mailto:beedlem@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 1:42 PM
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum history


                > Jonas Bengtsson [mailto:jonas.b@...]
                >Mike Cohn wrote:
                >> To my knowledge, Scrum was first documented by Hirotaka Takeuchi and
                >> Ikujiro Nonaka in 1986 in Harvard Business Review (Jan/Feb issue)
                >
                >I just got the book "The knowledge-creating company" by Takeuchi and
                Nonaka.
                >Are there any references to Scrum within that book? (I can't find it in the
                >index...)

                Jonas:

                There might be more references but here are some:

                      pgs. 78 (figure 3.7),
                      81 (middle of the page),
                      210, 211 (Rugby and "American Football")
                      255 (actual reference),
                      etc.


                - Mike
                http://www.livingmetaphor.org
                http://www.agilescrum.com
                http://www.xbreed.net



                To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
                To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.