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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum Evolution: Type A, B, and C Sprints

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  • Bas Vodde
    Hi Alan, You re reply confuses me :) Why do you think TPS is a set of principles and practices, while scrum just just a set of practices? Also, if I read old
    Message 1 of 37 , Jul 29, 2007
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      Hi Alan,

      You're reply confuses me :)

      Why do you think TPS is a set of principles and practices, while scrum
      just just a set of practices?

      Also, if I read old TPS books, like Ohno's first books, then I don't
      read very clear principles. I read, te TPS is based on these 2
      practices.. etc etc etc. How would you explain that?

      > The other difference is that Toyota is focused on continuous process
      > improvement - not initiatives. This is very important. There is no
      > place to get to, only a constant striving to improve what you do.

      Why do you think a team using Scrum should not be in state of continuous
      improvement? To me, this is what scrum is about, moving a team to a
      state of continuous improvement. Why do you think you see this so different?

      Thanks for clarifying my confusion :)

      Bas



      Alan Shalloway wrote:
      >
      >
      > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogroups.com>, Bas Vodde <basv@...> wrote:
      > > So, when starting with Scrum, it's best to not talk about A, B, C
      > or any
      > > evolution. (when continuing Scrum that's also best). Scrum is
      > about
      > > evolving within your context. So, it will evolve into something
      > and
      > > hopefully that includes lean ideas.
      > >
      > > So, let's forget about A, B and C and just start using Scrum.
      > >
      > > Bas
      >
      > Bas:
      > I see your point and see I misunderstood. Boy, I do that a lot with
      > written communication. ;)
      >
      > While Toyota may not call what they do different things it's because
      > they are based on principles. This means they understand that where
      > they are coming from is a mindset that gives guidance to practices.
      > Even though their practices change, the principles do not. Scrum,
      > however, is described as a set of practices (good ones) which
      > therefore limit where they apply. Practices are always contextually
      > limited. Type C Scrum is a set of practices based on the same
      > principles taht type A Scrum is, but in a different context.
      >
      > The other difference is that Toyota is focused on continuous process
      > improvement - not initiatives. This is very important. There is no
      > place to get to, only a constant striving to improve what you do.
      >
      > Alan Shalloway
      > CEO, Net Objectives
      > Gold Level Sponsor of Agile 2007
      >
      >
    • jay_conne
      ... Try this for the distinction between values and principles: - Values are what one acts to gain or keep Note the emphasis on action, not just talk. And,
      Message 37 of 37 , Aug 11 6:35 AM
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        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Shalloway"
        <alshall@...> wrote:
        > Actually, values and principles are different. I can value things
        > being in one piece, but I follow the law of gravity (principles are
        > like laws in my mind) to not just let go of things in mid-air (so I'll
        > manifest my value of unbroken things). Values are very important.
        > Scrum's values are very good in my mind.
        >
        > Alan Shalloway
        > CEO, Net Objectives, Gold Sponsor of Agile 2007
        >

        Try this for the distinction between values and principles:

        - "Values are what one acts to gain or keep" Note the emphasis on
        action, not just talk. And, of course, one's values can be
        constructive or destructive to ones long term success. (The concise
        definition is from Ayn Rand.)

        - Principles are abstractions that summarize a broad-base of
        experience on the nature of the world including people. In the
        broadest context, philosophical principles should be universal truths.
        In a narrower sense it applies to a particular domain such as
        medicine, leadership, programming, Lean/Agile SWD, etc.

        Here's my first principles that I use in teaching and coaching Scrum
        teams:

        - Reality wins in the end, so get there sooner.

        - Pretending to know what you don't know gets in the way of learning
        (and you can't get caught trying to learn it :-) ).

        - The world runs on trust.
        How do you earn and maintain trust?
        Go back and read the first two.

        Question for the reader - do you know how these three relate to the
        foundations of philosophy - going back to the Ancient Greeks? Do you
        think this was valid then? Now?

        I hope to see some of you in DC. I'm running for the AA board with a
        focus on support for my value of supporting local groups. And this is
        a value as defined above - I'm acting on it. For 18 years I've been a
        volunteer leader in the Boston ACM Chapter. I now just transformed
        the New England Agile Bazaar into an ACM Chapter. This could possibly
        lead to a new SIG. I'm toying with the name SIGLEAD as in Lean/Agile
        Development and the reference to leadership. :-)

        The challenge then will be to see how we can get various umbrella
        groups to collaborate to support single local groups rather than
        setting up ACM, AgileAlliance, APLN, SPIN and IEEE groups, dividing
        the community and the volunteer candidates. The counter argument may
        be the benefits of competition.

        Jay Conne
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