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scrum with unexperienced development team in new technology.

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  • Halil Bahadır
    Hi, Is it possible to apply Scrum to a group, who are very very new to Java and not have competency on Java but have to implement a project with Java?
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 28, 2007
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      Hi,
       
      Is it possible to apply Scrum to a group, who are very very new to Java and not  have competency on Java but have to implement a project with Java? Actually This is not important it is Java or anything else but it is about using Scrum with unexperienced team with  a development technology but the team have to implement with this technology. 
       
      thanks...

      --
      Halil Bahadir
       
    • Mike Vizdos
      I do not think any framework you use with a green team on the technology will help. Maybe the first thing you should address is getting people trained or bring
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 28, 2007
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        I do not think any framework you use with a green team on the technology will help.

        Maybe the first thing you should address is getting people trained or bring in some experience to pair with the new people.

        Scrum does not address engineering practices but that does not mean you should ignore them.  That would be irresponsible in my humble opinion.


        On Jul 28, 2007, at 1:32 PM, "Halil Bahadır" <bahadirhalil@...> wrote:

        Hi,
         
        Is it possible to apply Scrum to a group, who are very very new to Java and not  have competency on Java but have to implement a project with Java? Actually This is not important it is Java or anything else but it is about using Scrum with unexperienced team with  a development technology but the team have to implement with this technology. 
         
        thanks...

        --
        Halil Bahadir
         

      • Bas Vodde
        Hi Halil, Sure, I think you can use Scrum, it will just not solve your problem :) In groups new to a certain technology I let them generate quite some study
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 28, 2007
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          Hi Halil,

          Sure, I think you can use Scrum, it will just not solve your problem :)
          In groups new to a certain technology I let them generate quite some
          study tasks and experiment tasks next to the normal tasks in the sprint
          planning. This will slow the team down, but that needs to happen in
          order for the team to learn.

          Hope this helps!

          Bas

          Halil Bahad?r wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > Is it possible to apply Scrum to a group, who are very very new to
          > Java and not have competency on Java but have to implement a
          > project with Java? Actually This is not important it is Java or anything
          > else but it is about using Scrum with unexperienced team with a
          > development technology but the team have to implement with
          > this technology.
          >
          > thanks...
          >
          > --
          > Halil Bahadir
          >
          >
        • Roy Morien
          Many people are fond of using a building construction analogy for IT projects ... which do not generally ascribe to, because it is usually misleading and
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 28, 2007
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            Many people are fond of using a 'building construction' analogy for IT
            projects ... which do not generally ascribe to, because it is usually
            misleading and irrelevant. BUT on this occasion I will use such an analogy.

            Halil ... a question for you ... If you were to contract with a builder to
            build your dream home, would you expect that builder to actually know how to
            build houses BEFORE he starts to construct your house? Or would you be happy
            to let him learn about how to do that while he is struggling to build your
            house (struggling, because he doesn't know how to do it).

            I think the answer will be clearly, NO. You would have an expectation that
            he and all his employees and sub-contractors are competent to do the job.
            You would expect that they are already trained, that they know how to do it,
            what technology to use, how to use that technology etc.

            So why is your question about "a group, who are very very new to Java and
            not have competency on Java but have to implement a project with Java?" even
            being asked. Of course your team should be competent before they start!!! A
            top performing team should have their portfolio of development technologies
            (language, report writers, database, GUI principles and standards, support
            code libraries, data dictionary etc. etc etc.) in place, and all members of
            the team trained and competent, THEN they can look for projects to
            undertake. Frankly, anything less is professinal negligence, unethical and
            is asking for failure and litigation.

            A second point I would make is that your question is equally relevant to
            whatever development approach your wish to adopt. Untrained project
            personnel will just as assuredly have enormous problems using Agile as using
            Spiral as using RUP as using SDLC approaches.

            There is of course one caveat to my comments, one 'out', if you like. And
            that is, if the team members' need for training is clearly understood prior
            to project commencement, and is factored in to the project considerations.
            This may be manifested perhaps as a understanding that time must be included
            in the project activities to allow training, or to allow for the
            inexperience of the team members. This is where project 'velocity' is going
            to be impacted, and where Agile actually takes this into account, in the
            'project empiricism' ... that is, allowing the project leader / manager /
            ScrumMaster to elarn the real levels of competence of the team members, and
            the real training requirements; ie: one important aspect of the resource
            requirements to be factored into the project planning. Other 'planned'
            approaches can take this into account too, usually by factoring in a
            substantial project overhead at the start, but this is just a guess, and
            assumes the project planner already is aware of these requirements before
            the project starts (or that the size of the overhead added is a darn goo
            amount to be safe).

            Sorry to be a little verbose about this, but the subject of ill-prepared
            project teams is of interest to me. AND I am not saying that your team
            members are incompetent in the general sense, so please do not take offense
            in that regard. As you have said, it is Java they are new at, not
            programming or development generally.

            Regards,
            Roy Morien

            >From: "Halil Bahad�r" <bahadirhalil@...>
            >Reply-To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            >To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [scrumdevelopment] scrum with unexperienced development team in
            >new technology.
            >Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:32:10 +0300
            >
            >Hi,
            >
            >Is it possible to apply Scrum to a group, who are very very new to Java and
            >not have competency on Java but have to implement a project with Java?
            >Actually This is not important it is Java or anything else but it is about
            >using Scrum with unexperienced team with a development technology but the
            >team have to implement with this technology.
            >
            >thanks...
            >
            >--
            >Halil Bahadir

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