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Re: Origins of Scrum

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  • Alan Shalloway
    ... It s not quite repetition. It s saying the same thing in different ways. This is important. People have different learning styles and different
    Message 1 of 39 , Jul 3, 2007
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      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "David H." <dmalloc@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > <snip>
      > As much as I respect Mary and Tom and yourself, Alan, I find it a bit
      > odd that we keep repeating something akin to a comparison which is
      > based on three words,
      > Muda (no value-added), Mura (uneveness) and Muri (overburden).

      It's not quite repetition. It's saying the same thing in different
      ways. This is important. People have different learning styles and
      different backgrounds. I have found that saying the same thing 3
      different ways will hit different people.

      In the case of Lean principles, I believe most Scrum practitioners are
      not familiar with how Lean can help them - so I am not sure I am
      repeating things at all.

      On the other hand, Scrum practices are very helpful for many to learn
      Lean because the practices give something concrete to do. Some people
      learn best by going from practice to principle. Others by going from
      principle to practice.

      Alan Shalloway
      CEO, Net Objectives
    • Michael Spayd
      Hi Alan, On 7/5/07, Alan Shalloway wrote: I have made several posts illustrating these connections. Ironically, there has been more
      Message 39 of 39 , Jul 5, 2007
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        Hi Alan,

        On 7/5/07, Alan Shalloway <alshall@...> wrote:
         
        I have made several posts illustrating these connections.
        Ironically, there has been more discussion on my restatement of
        _Jeff's_ assertion (as if _I_ had come up with it when I have
        already said isn't that important anyway) than there has with
        whether my comments about using Lean in the way I do is correct or
        incorrect. I am certainly interested in people's opinions if they
        think my posts are useful, useless, questionable, unclear, concise,
        … (whatever).
         
        Thanks for clarifying that, Alan, it was a bit annoying that others seemed not to understand your intent. I can't comment on your use of Lean except to say it makes good sense to me (I am knowledeable, but can't claim to be an expert in Lean). I would like to emphasize another point of yours in the Agile methodology realm where I can claim expertise (or at least old dog status). That is, you first distinguished principles from practices, then said something to the effect that Scrum does not have clearly articulated principles (unlike XP or Crystal, for instance), even if the practices are quite clear.
         
        For me, this was a very useful observation. It is a big gap, IMO. Dave Barrett (above) did what I take to be a good first draft at articulating some principles, but these have clearly not been validated by the Scrum community. I believe, as Dave indicated, they the underlying set of Scrum principles are few and simple, but unarticulated nevertheles.
         
        Does that make sense to others? or do the rest of you just believe  that that would be helpful? Again, the principles in an Agile methodology do not change (though they might slowly evolve), whereas the practices are adapted by a self-organizing team and a competent coach according to experience and circumstance (and using the applications of the relevant principle).

        Comments?
         
        Michael

        --
        Michael K. Spayd
        Cogility Consulting Solutions, LLC
        "Business Mind, Social Heart"
        michael.spayd@...
        720.300.5286

        "Leading Agile Enterprise Transformations"
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