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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Origins of Scrum

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  • David H.
    ... As much as I respect Mary and Tom and yourself, Alan, I find it a bit odd that we keep repeating something akin to a comparison which is based on
    Message 1 of 39 , Jul 3, 2007
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      <snip>
      >
      > I believe these are 7 principles that Scrum is consistent with. These
      > are the 7 principles the Poppendieck's mention are the principles of
      > Lean Software Development.

      As much as I respect Mary and Tom and yourself, Alan, I find it a bit
      odd that we keep repeating something akin to a comparison which is
      based on three words,
      Muda (no value-added), Mura (uneveness) and Muri (overburden).
      Those three words describe the underlying theory to Lean Manufacturing
      and many of those ideas have then been pulled into Lean Software
      development. Shigeo Shingo and later Ohno and Taiichi quite clearly
      state in their papers that those ideas are universal but their
      application in a concise manner actually helped Toyota to advance that
      quickly. Kaizen is probably another one worth mentioning.

      My point is, that we can have a very long discussion on how the flow
      of where to what and who to whom went, when it should be quite clear
      that to some extent Lean, Scrum, DSDM, XP and whatever other
      methodology/framework you might wish to name, try to stick as closely
      as possible to those three words named above. Simply because we are
      one in the overall wish to make life easier and produce better
      product.

      -d




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    • Michael Spayd
      Hi Alan, On 7/5/07, Alan Shalloway wrote: I have made several posts illustrating these connections. Ironically, there has been more
      Message 39 of 39 , Jul 5, 2007
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        Hi Alan,

        On 7/5/07, Alan Shalloway <alshall@...> wrote:
         
        I have made several posts illustrating these connections.
        Ironically, there has been more discussion on my restatement of
        _Jeff's_ assertion (as if _I_ had come up with it when I have
        already said isn't that important anyway) than there has with
        whether my comments about using Lean in the way I do is correct or
        incorrect. I am certainly interested in people's opinions if they
        think my posts are useful, useless, questionable, unclear, concise,
        … (whatever).
         
        Thanks for clarifying that, Alan, it was a bit annoying that others seemed not to understand your intent. I can't comment on your use of Lean except to say it makes good sense to me (I am knowledeable, but can't claim to be an expert in Lean). I would like to emphasize another point of yours in the Agile methodology realm where I can claim expertise (or at least old dog status). That is, you first distinguished principles from practices, then said something to the effect that Scrum does not have clearly articulated principles (unlike XP or Crystal, for instance), even if the practices are quite clear.
         
        For me, this was a very useful observation. It is a big gap, IMO. Dave Barrett (above) did what I take to be a good first draft at articulating some principles, but these have clearly not been validated by the Scrum community. I believe, as Dave indicated, they the underlying set of Scrum principles are few and simple, but unarticulated nevertheles.
         
        Does that make sense to others? or do the rest of you just believe  that that would be helpful? Again, the principles in an Agile methodology do not change (though they might slowly evolve), whereas the practices are adapted by a self-organizing team and a competent coach according to experience and circumstance (and using the applications of the relevant principle).

        Comments?
         
        Michael

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        Michael K. Spayd
        Cogility Consulting Solutions, LLC
        "Business Mind, Social Heart"
        michael.spayd@...
        720.300.5286

        "Leading Agile Enterprise Transformations"
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