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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Origins of Scrum

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  • Nicholas Cancelliere
    I think of Scrum mostly as a framework. In the sense that development framework integrate or work well with things designed to utilize it - I think Scrum is a
    Message 1 of 39 , Jul 2, 2007
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      I think of Scrum mostly as a framework.  In the sense that development framework integrate or work well with things designed to utilize it - I think Scrum is a great Agile project framework that is especially open to XP and Lean practices and principals.  

      The successful implementations of Scrum that I've personally seen and or read about seem to inedibly involve at least some XP practices and or embraced Lean principals.  

      That said, I do think there are principles with Scrum.  If you know the values and practices then how do you not have principles which drive the reasons behind them?  Why is there one product owner?  Why small sprints?  Why is done considered acceptance?  Why do you inspect and adapt?  Etc.  I would imagine when you start to explain the "why" you start to realize the principles behind it, and thus behind Scrum.

      Nicholas



      On Jul 2, 2007, at 8:19 AM, Alan Shalloway wrote:

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Ray" <keith.ray@...> 
      wrote:

      i was talking about the contrast between
      "Repeatable/Defined/Prescriptive process" versus "empirical 
      approach",
      suggesting that "empirical approach" is a meta-
      process. "Principles"
      and "Values" could also be considered meta-process components.


      Oh I totally agree.  The problem is what are the principles of 
      Scrum?  I am clear what the values are.  I am clear what the 
      practices are.  Personally, I use the principles of Lean as the 
      principles/foundation of Scrum as they help tailor Scrum practices 
      in different situations to get repeatably good results (using 
      different practices as the team sees fit in the different 
      situations).

      Alan Shalloway
      CEO, Net Objectives
      www.netobjectives.com




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      ---
      Nicholas Cancelliere
      Austin, TX


    • Michael Spayd
      Hi Alan, On 7/5/07, Alan Shalloway wrote: I have made several posts illustrating these connections. Ironically, there has been more
      Message 39 of 39 , Jul 5, 2007
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        Hi Alan,

        On 7/5/07, Alan Shalloway <alshall@...> wrote:
         
        I have made several posts illustrating these connections.
        Ironically, there has been more discussion on my restatement of
        _Jeff's_ assertion (as if _I_ had come up with it when I have
        already said isn't that important anyway) than there has with
        whether my comments about using Lean in the way I do is correct or
        incorrect. I am certainly interested in people's opinions if they
        think my posts are useful, useless, questionable, unclear, concise,
        … (whatever).
         
        Thanks for clarifying that, Alan, it was a bit annoying that others seemed not to understand your intent. I can't comment on your use of Lean except to say it makes good sense to me (I am knowledeable, but can't claim to be an expert in Lean). I would like to emphasize another point of yours in the Agile methodology realm where I can claim expertise (or at least old dog status). That is, you first distinguished principles from practices, then said something to the effect that Scrum does not have clearly articulated principles (unlike XP or Crystal, for instance), even if the practices are quite clear.
         
        For me, this was a very useful observation. It is a big gap, IMO. Dave Barrett (above) did what I take to be a good first draft at articulating some principles, but these have clearly not been validated by the Scrum community. I believe, as Dave indicated, they the underlying set of Scrum principles are few and simple, but unarticulated nevertheles.
         
        Does that make sense to others? or do the rest of you just believe  that that would be helpful? Again, the principles in an Agile methodology do not change (though they might slowly evolve), whereas the practices are adapted by a self-organizing team and a competent coach according to experience and circumstance (and using the applications of the relevant principle).

        Comments?
         
        Michael

        --
        Michael K. Spayd
        Cogility Consulting Solutions, LLC
        "Business Mind, Social Heart"
        michael.spayd@...
        720.300.5286

        "Leading Agile Enterprise Transformations"
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