Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Origins of Scrum
- I think of Scrum mostly as a framework. In the sense that development framework integrate or work well with things designed to utilize it - I think Scrum is a great Agile project framework that is especially open to XP and Lean practices and principals.The successful implementations of Scrum that I've personally seen and or read about seem to inedibly involve at least some XP practices and or embraced Lean principals.That said, I do think there are principles with Scrum. If you know the values and practices then how do you not have principles which drive the reasons behind them? Why is there one product owner? Why small sprints? Why is done considered acceptance? Why do you inspect and adapt? Etc. I would imagine when you start to explain the "why" you start to realize the principles behind it, and thus behind Scrum.NicholasOn Jul 2, 2007, at 8:19 AM, Alan Shalloway wrote:--- In email@example.com, "Keith Ray" <keith.ray@...>wrote:i was talking about the contrast between"Repeatable/Defined/Prescriptive process" versus "empiricalapproach",suggesting that "empirical approach" is a meta-process. "Principles"and "Values" could also be considered meta-process components.Oh I totally agree. The problem is what are the principles ofScrum? I am clear what the values are. I am clear what thepractices are. Personally, I use the principles of Lean as theprinciples/foundation of Scrum as they help tailor Scrum practicesin different situations to get repeatably good results (usingdifferent practices as the team sees fit in the differentsituations).Alan ShallowayCEO, Net Objectiveswww.netobjectives.comTo Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...Yahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:<*> Your email settings:Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to:(Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email:<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
- Hi Alan,On 7/5/07, Alan Shalloway <alshall@...> wrote:I have made several posts illustrating these connections.
Ironically, there has been more discussion on my restatement of
_Jeff's_ assertion (as if _I_ had come up with it when I have
already said isn't that important anyway) than there has with
whether my comments about using Lean in the way I do is correct or
incorrect. I am certainly interested in people's opinions if they
think my posts are useful, useless, questionable, unclear, concise,
Thanks for clarifying that, Alan, it was a bit annoying that others seemed not to understand your intent. I can't comment on your use of Lean except to say it makes good sense to me (I am knowledeable, but can't claim to be an expert in Lean). I would like to emphasize another point of yours in the Agile methodology realm where I can claim expertise (or at least old dog status). That is, you first distinguished principles from practices, then said something to the effect that Scrum does not have clearly articulated principles (unlike XP or Crystal, for instance), even if the practices are quite clear.For me, this was a very useful observation. It is a big gap, IMO. Dave Barrett (above) did what I take to be a good first draft at articulating some principles, but these have clearly not been validated by the Scrum community. I believe, as Dave indicated, they the underlying set of Scrum principles are few and simple, but unarticulated nevertheles.Does that make sense to others? or do the rest of you just believe that that would be helpful? Again, the principles in an Agile methodology do not change (though they might slowly evolve), whereas the practices are adapted by a self-organizing team and a competent coach according to experience and circumstance (and using the applications of the relevant principle).
Michael K. Spayd
Cogility Consulting Solutions, LLC
"Business Mind, Social Heart"
"Leading Agile Enterprise Transformations"