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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Origins of Scrum

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  • Mike Dwyer
    Several years ago, perhaps before many of the readers had heard of Scrum, Mike Cohn compared Scrum to the game GO . To this day I have not found a better
    Message 1 of 39 , Jul 2, 2007
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      Several years ago, perhaps before many of the readers had heard of Scrum, Mike Cohn compared Scrum to the game “GO”.  To this day I have not found a better example and comparison.  For those of you who do not know of the game, here is a site.

       

      http://www.well.com/~mmcadams/gointro.html#rules

       

      I sometimes wonder if people confuse the notion that repeatable is synonymous with scalable rigidity, that is the larger the scope of the repeatable rules and ensuing action, the larger and more pervasive the didactic, inflexible, nature of the action.  IMO when this confusion occurs, you end up like Taylor.  If however you chose to limit the notion of repeatable to small, atomic, rules then the actions you create become modules of discreet repeatable action that can be combined to assist getting things done in a variety of environments.

       

      It is this latter, unconfusing and extensible set of actions notion of repeatable that begins to describe the game ‘GO’ and Scrum.

       

      Michael F. Dwyer

       

      "Planning constantly peers into the future for indications as to where a solution may emerge."

      "A Plan is a complex situation, adapting to an emerging solution." 

      -----Original Message-----
      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schwaber
      Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 8:03 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Origins of Scrum

       

      I think of Scrum as a framework. Think of chess. The board is defined, the pieced are defined, the rules of play are defined. So the game is repeatable. However, every instance is so unique that there are tons of books on tactics and strategies, studying games and the various players. That is how I view Scrum. I think repeatable is an awkward, misleading word in this context.

      Ken

       


      From: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Michael Spayd
      Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 8:58 PM
      To: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Origins of Scrum

       

      Pete wrote/suggested to Ken;

      >2) Emphasize that while the steps to design a specific system do not meet the criteria of a defined process, ( i.e. you cannot produce a useful detailed plan to produce a complex system), you can define repeatable processes associated with the various software engineering disciplines, including the project management process (a la Scrum).

      Ken wrote back:

      >There is certainly definition in empirical, but it is only enough to create one increment to inspect and adapt on (be empirical about). This increment is either what a team members produce for a daily scrum, or what a team produces for a sprint planning meeting.

      Ken, I didn't see this in your response, and would really like to know whether you agree Scrum is more or less a repeatable process per Pete's quote above and that you could similiarly define repeatable processes for software engineering (perhaps like XP)?

       

      Thanks in advance,

       

      Michael
      --
      Michael K. Spayd
      Cogility Consulting Solutions, LLC
      "Business Mind, Social Heart"
      michael.spayd@ gmail.com
      720.300.5286

      "Leading Agile Enterprise Transformations"

    • Michael Spayd
      Hi Alan, On 7/5/07, Alan Shalloway wrote: I have made several posts illustrating these connections. Ironically, there has been more
      Message 39 of 39 , Jul 5, 2007
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        Hi Alan,

        On 7/5/07, Alan Shalloway <alshall@...> wrote:
         
        I have made several posts illustrating these connections.
        Ironically, there has been more discussion on my restatement of
        _Jeff's_ assertion (as if _I_ had come up with it when I have
        already said isn't that important anyway) than there has with
        whether my comments about using Lean in the way I do is correct or
        incorrect. I am certainly interested in people's opinions if they
        think my posts are useful, useless, questionable, unclear, concise,
        … (whatever).
         
        Thanks for clarifying that, Alan, it was a bit annoying that others seemed not to understand your intent. I can't comment on your use of Lean except to say it makes good sense to me (I am knowledeable, but can't claim to be an expert in Lean). I would like to emphasize another point of yours in the Agile methodology realm where I can claim expertise (or at least old dog status). That is, you first distinguished principles from practices, then said something to the effect that Scrum does not have clearly articulated principles (unlike XP or Crystal, for instance), even if the practices are quite clear.
         
        For me, this was a very useful observation. It is a big gap, IMO. Dave Barrett (above) did what I take to be a good first draft at articulating some principles, but these have clearly not been validated by the Scrum community. I believe, as Dave indicated, they the underlying set of Scrum principles are few and simple, but unarticulated nevertheles.
         
        Does that make sense to others? or do the rest of you just believe  that that would be helpful? Again, the principles in an Agile methodology do not change (though they might slowly evolve), whereas the practices are adapted by a self-organizing team and a competent coach according to experience and circumstance (and using the applications of the relevant principle).

        Comments?
         
        Michael

        --
        Michael K. Spayd
        Cogility Consulting Solutions, LLC
        "Business Mind, Social Heart"
        michael.spayd@...
        720.300.5286

        "Leading Agile Enterprise Transformations"
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