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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum training

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  • Mark Levison
    ... To Roman s excellent advice I would suggest start with your CSM, Mike s book on User Stories, Mike s presentation: Becoming an Effective Product Owner
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 1, 2007
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      On 6/1/07, Roman Pichler <roman.pichler@...> wrote:
      Hi Patrick,

      Judging from my experience, most product owners need additional
      knowledge and skills to do their job effectively. The CSM class
      primarily focuses on the skills necessary for ScrumMasters. I have
      trained product owners using dedicated training classes, workshops
      and boot camps. I also frequently recommended self-study, e.g., by
      reading Mike Cohn's excellent book on user stories. It depends on
      what is most helpful for the people involved and how much exposure
      the individuals have had to Scrum.

      To Roman's excellent advice I would suggest start with your CSM, Mike's book on User Stories, Mike's presentation: "Becoming an Effective Product Owner " (http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/presentation_view/47) from the Nov '06 Scrum Gathering.

      But as with anything else in Scrum I would use the inspect and adapt process. So take your course, do some reading and check where you're at. If you need more help - we will still be here to answer questions.

      Blog: http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/
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    • Alan Shalloway
      ... search... ... and ... offer ... that ... whilst ... The need for the product owner varies a lot depending upon whether the software organization is a
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 1, 2007
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        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Hundermark"
        <peterh@...> wrote:
        > Forgive me if I've missed a previous thread - I did tried to
        > Why are there so few Product Owner courses? It seems Ken Schwaber
        > Mike Cohn offer 2 or 3 CPO courses per year. A few other CST's
        > product owner training. Compare this with about 40 CST's offering
        > dozens (hundreds?) of CSM courses annually.
        > It strkes me as a little odd that there is an established industry
        > churns out thousands of CSM's (many of whom never practise),
        > PO's are largely ignored.
        > Is there something I don't 'get'?
        > Peter

        The need for the product owner varies a lot depending upon whether
        the software organization is a product type organization (creating
        something sold) or an IT organization (creating something used
        internally). Many software organizations actually have the role of
        the product owner reasonably understood, but have no clue as to how
        to really organize a product backlog or how to break stories up into
        right sizes.

        We offer a course called "Agile Estimation and Analysis For
        Developers and Product Owners" see
        developer-product-owner) which is a team based approach to analysis
        in a Scrum environment. We have found a team based approach to
        analysis to be very useful in the same way our team based approach
        to teaching Scrum is (Implementing Scrum For Your Team). In other
        words, instead of focusing on how to train _a_ project
        leader/facilitator (the Scrum Master) or _a_ voice of the customer
        (the Product Owner) we find a team based approach to training works
        much better.

        How to fill the role of the product owner itself when it is not
        present is typically very different for different organizations. In
        many of these cases, once the problem is understood, the team can
        usually figure out how to best fill the role better than an outsider.

        I find it ironic that a team based approach focuses so much on two
        (admittedly key) roles.

        Alan Shalloway
        CEO, Net Objectives
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