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Scrum friendly contracts

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  • ceezone
    Hallo Everyone, I wonder if I can get hold of example contract/contract sections which are Scrum friendly. Ideas on how to frame such contracts will do as
    Message 1 of 10 , May 27, 2007
      Hallo Everyone,
      I wonder if I can get hold of example contract/contract sections which
      are Scrum friendly. Ideas on how to frame such contracts will do as
      well.
      I am particularly interested in cases where a development co can bid
      for projects (not Product development).

      Does anyone know of cases where the project has been split into two or
      more phases? The fist phase being a limited-scope / fixed-time project,
      where there most of the risk is taken by the Dev company. The second
      phase being more on lines of time and material, Risk shared, and scope
      evolves as the sprints are executed.

      cheers
      Cheenie
    • Neeraj Deginal
      We have split the contract in two phases 1. Requirements phase with time, resource and cost attached 2. Development phase with time, resource and cost attached
      Message 2 of 10 , May 28, 2007

        We have split the contract in two phases

         

        1. Requirements phase with time, resource and cost attached
        2. Development phase with time, resource and cost attached

         

        Let me know if this helps.

         

        Regards,

        Neeraj

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ceezone
        Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 11:22 AM
        To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SPAM] [scrumdevelopment] Scrum friendly contracts
        Importance: Low

         

        Hallo Everyone,
        I wonder if I can get hold of example contract/contract sections which
        are Scrum friendly. Ideas on how to frame such contracts will do as
        well.
        I am particularly interested in cases where a development co can bid
        for projects (not Product development) .

        Does anyone know of cases where the project has been split into two or
        more phases? The fist phase being a limited-scope / fixed-time project,
        where there most of the risk is taken by the Dev company. The second
        phase being more on lines of time and material, Risk shared, and scope
        evolves as the sprints are executed.

        cheers
        Cheenie

      • Mike Cohn
        Cheenie-- I ve written an article on Writing Contracts for Agile Development that you may want to see at: http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/article/5 Doing
        Message 3 of 10 , May 28, 2007
          Cheenie--
          I've written an article on "Writing Contracts for Agile Development" that you may want to see at:
          Doing a two-phase approach like you suggest below is very common in all contract development, including agile.
          Regards,
          Mike Cohn
          Author:
            Agile Estimating and Planning
            User Stories Applied
          www.mountaingoatsoftware.com


          On May 27, 2007, at 11:52 PM, ceezone wrote:

          Hallo Everyone,
          I wonder if I can get hold of example contract/contract sections which
          are Scrum friendly. Ideas on how to frame such contracts will do as
          well.
          I am particularly interested in cases where a development co can bid
          for projects (not Product development).

          Does anyone know of cases where the project has been split into two or
          more phases? The fist phase being a limited-scope / fixed-time project,
          where there most of the risk is taken by the Dev company. The second
          phase being more on lines of time and material, Risk shared, and scope
          evolves as the sprints are executed.

          cheers
          Cheenie


        • srinivas chillara
          I am not sure, unless I have more details. Is it a Fixed price or Time&Material or a combination, or some other? ... Download prohibited? No problem! To chat
          Message 4 of 10 , May 28, 2007
            I am not sure, unless I have more details. Is it a
            Fixed price or Time&Material or a combination, or some
            other?




            > We have split the contract in two phases
            >
            >
            >
            > 1. Requirements phase with time, resource and cost
            > attached
            > 2. Development phase with time, resource and cost
            > attached
            >
            >
            >
            > Let me know if this helps.
            >
            >
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Neeraj
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            > Of ceezone
            > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 11:22 AM
            > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [SPAM] [scrumdevelopment] Scrum friendly
            > contracts
            > Importance: Low
            >
            >
            >
            > Hallo Everyone,
            > I wonder if I can get hold of example
            > contract/contract sections which
            > are Scrum friendly. Ideas on how to frame such
            > contracts will do as
            > well.
            > I am particularly interested in cases where a
            > development co can bid
            > for projects (not Product development).
            >
            > Does anyone know of cases where the project has been
            > split into two or
            > more phases? The fist phase being a limited-scope /
            > fixed-time project,
            > where there most of the risk is taken by the Dev
            > company. The second
            > phase being more on lines of time and material, Risk
            > shared, and scope
            > evolves as the sprints are executed.
            >
            > cheers
            > Cheenie
            >
            >
            >
            >



            Download prohibited? No problem! To chat from any browser without download, Click Here: http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
          • srinivas chillara
            Hallo Mike, It was very instructive, but not in the manner I hoped for. I think your went into a much greater detail, and is an applicable example of a project
            Message 5 of 10 , May 28, 2007
              Hallo Mike,
              It was very instructive, but not in the manner I hoped
              for. I think your went into a much greater detail, and
              is an applicable example of a project that has already
              been agreed upon.
              Finally you say "A good contract will also align
              incentives between the parties." Examples?

              Pete Demeer in his training, provided some examples of
              clauses in such contracts. I was looking for alternate
              approaches etc, and examples of contracts (wordings as
              well). More of a legal angle.

              For example, can one put up such a clause:

              "During the second phase, Each major story or set of
              stories will be agreed upon for every sprint. A
              business value assigned to such stories (by
              end-user/PO)along with initial time estimate (by
              contractor) will be the basis of cost that will be
              charged"

              Is this even realistic?

              Yours Clearly clueless
              Cheenie



              > Cheenie--
              > I've written an article on "Writing Contracts for
              > Agile Development"
              > that you may want to see at:
              > http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/article/5
              > Doing a two-phase approach like you suggest below is
              > very common in
              > all contract development, including agile.
              > Regards,
              > Mike Cohn
              > Author:
              > Agile Estimating and Planning
              > User Stories Applied
              > www.mountaingoatsoftware.com
              >
              >
              > On May 27, 2007, at 11:52 PM, ceezone wrote:
              >
              > > Hallo Everyone,
              > > I wonder if I can get hold of example
              > contract/contract sections which
              > > are Scrum friendly. Ideas on how to frame such
              > contracts will do as
              > > well.
              > > I am particularly interested in cases where a
              > development co can bid
              > > for projects (not Product development).
              > >
              > > Does anyone know of cases where the project has
              > been split into two or
              > > more phases? The fist phase being a limited-scope
              > / fixed-time
              > > project,
              > > where there most of the risk is taken by the Dev
              > company. The second
              > > phase being more on lines of time and material,
              > Risk shared, and scope
              > > evolves as the sprints are executed.
              > >
              > > cheers
              > > Cheenie
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >



              Download prohibited? No problem! To chat from any browser without download, Click Here: http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
            • srinivas chillara
              Hallo Mike, It was very instructive, but not in the manner I hoped for. I think your went into a much greater detail, and is an applicable example of a project
              Message 6 of 10 , May 28, 2007
                Hallo Mike,
                It was very instructive, but not in the manner I hoped
                for. I think your went into a much greater detail, and
                is an applicable example of a project that has already
                been agreed upon.
                Finally you say "A good contract will also align
                incentives between the parties." Examples?

                Pete Demeer in his training, provided some examples of
                clauses in such contracts. I was looking for alternate
                approaches etc, and examples of contracts (wordings as
                well). More of a legal angle.

                For example, can one put up such a clause:

                "During the second phase, Each major story or set of
                stories will be agreed upon for every sprint. A
                business value assigned to such stories (by
                end-user/PO)along with initial time estimate (by
                contractor) will be the basis of cost that will be
                charged"

                Is this even realistic?

                Yours Clearly clueless
                Cheenie



                > Cheenie--
                > I've written an article on "Writing Contracts for
                > Agile Development"
                > that you may want to see at:
                > http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/article/5
                > Doing a two-phase approach like you suggest below is
                > very common in
                > all contract development, including agile.
                > Regards,
                > Mike Cohn
                > Author:
                > Agile Estimating and Planning
                > User Stories Applied
                > www.mountaingoatsoftware.com
                >
                >
                > On May 27, 2007, at 11:52 PM, ceezone wrote:
                >
                > > Hallo Everyone,
                > > I wonder if I can get hold of example
                > contract/contract sections which
                > > are Scrum friendly. Ideas on how to frame such
                > contracts will do as
                > > well.
                > > I am particularly interested in cases where a
                > development co can bid
                > > for projects (not Product development).
                > >
                > > Does anyone know of cases where the project has
                > been split into two or
                > > more phases? The fist phase being a limited-scope
                > / fixed-time
                > > project,
                > > where there most of the risk is taken by the Dev
                > company. The second
                > > phase being more on lines of time and material,
                > Risk shared, and scope
                > > evolves as the sprints are executed.
                > >
                > > cheers
                > > Cheenie
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >



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              • Dave Nicolette
                Srinivas, John Rusk is an agile consultant in NZ who has experience crafting contracts for fixed-bid and other types of agile work. You might want to ask him
                Message 7 of 10 , May 29, 2007
                  Srinivas,

                  John Rusk is an agile consultant in NZ who has experience crafting
                  contracts for fixed-bid and other types of agile work. You might want
                  to ask him about this. His website is at http://www.agilekiwi.com/.

                  Dave


                  --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, srinivas chillara
                  <ceezone@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hallo Mike,
                  > It was very instructive, but not in the manner I hoped
                  > for. I think your went into a much greater detail, and
                  > is an applicable example of a project that has already
                  > been agreed upon.
                  > Finally you say "A good contract will also align
                  > incentives between the parties." Examples?
                  >
                  > Pete Demeer in his training, provided some examples of
                  > clauses in such contracts. I was looking for alternate
                  > approaches etc, and examples of contracts (wordings as
                  > well). More of a legal angle.
                  >
                  > For example, can one put up such a clause:
                  >
                  > "During the second phase, Each major story or set of
                  > stories will be agreed upon for every sprint. A
                  > business value assigned to such stories (by
                  > end-user/PO)along with initial time estimate (by
                  > contractor) will be the basis of cost that will be
                  > charged"
                  >
                  > Is this even realistic?
                  >
                  > Yours Clearly clueless
                  > Cheenie
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > Cheenie--
                  > > I've written an article on "Writing Contracts for
                  > > Agile Development"
                  > > that you may want to see at:
                  > > http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/article/5
                  > > Doing a two-phase approach like you suggest below is
                  > > very common in
                  > > all contract development, including agile.
                  > > Regards,
                  > > Mike Cohn
                  > > Author:
                  > > Agile Estimating and Planning
                  > > User Stories Applied
                  > > www.mountaingoatsoftware.com
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On May 27, 2007, at 11:52 PM, ceezone wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Hallo Everyone,
                  > > > I wonder if I can get hold of example
                  > > contract/contract sections which
                  > > > are Scrum friendly. Ideas on how to frame such
                  > > contracts will do as
                  > > > well.
                  > > > I am particularly interested in cases where a
                  > > development co can bid
                  > > > for projects (not Product development).
                  > > >
                  > > > Does anyone know of cases where the project has
                  > > been split into two or
                  > > > more phases? The fist phase being a limited-scope
                  > > / fixed-time
                  > > > project,
                  > > > where there most of the risk is taken by the Dev
                  > > company. The second
                  > > > phase being more on lines of time and material,
                  > > Risk shared, and scope
                  > > > evolves as the sprints are executed.
                  > > >
                  > > > cheers
                  > > > Cheenie
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Did you know? You can CHAT without downloading messenger.
                  Click here http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
                  >
                • John Rusk
                  Dave, I m afraid I can t provide any text from real contracts in this forum (which I think is wah Srinivas was asking for), however some agile contract options
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 3, 2007
                    Dave,

                    I'm afraid I can't provide any text from real contracts in this forum
                    (which I think is wah Srinivas was asking for), however some agile
                    contract options require only minor adjustments to traditional
                    contracts (e.g. a start-up phase may have a contract similar to a
                    traditional fixed-price one; a fliexibe-scope contract may be similar
                    to a traditional T&M one).

                    Target cost contracts are a bit more tricky. I'm hoping to blog
                    about them later this year.

                    John

                    http://www.agilekiwi.com

                    --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Nicolette"
                    <dnicolet@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Srinivas,
                    >
                    > John Rusk is an agile consultant in NZ who has experience crafting
                    > contracts for fixed-bid and other types of agile work. You might
                    want
                    > to ask him about this. His website is at http://www.agilekiwi.com/.
                    >
                    > Dave
                  • Angela Martin
                    Hi, Bruce Eckfeldt wrote a great experience report on target cost contracts for Agile 2005 - http://cyrusinnovation.com/website/cyrus_informs.php which may
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 3, 2007
                      Hi,

                      Bruce Eckfeldt wrote a great experience report on target cost contracts for Agile 2005 - http://cyrusinnovation.com/website/cyrus_informs.php which may help.  I am sure he would be happy to provide more detail off-line if that would be useful.

                      Cheers,
                      Angela

                      On 04/06/07, John Rusk <j01@...> wrote:

                      Dave,

                      I'm afraid I can't provide any text from real contracts in this forum
                      (which I think is wah Srinivas was asking for), however some agile
                      contract options require only minor adjustments to traditional
                      contracts (e.g. a start-up phase may have a contract similar to a
                      traditional fixed-price one; a fliexibe-scope contract may be similar
                      to a traditional T&M one).

                      Target cost contracts are a bit more tricky. I'm hoping to blog
                      about them later this year.

                      John

                      http://www.agilekiwi.com

                      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Nicolette"
                      <dnicolet@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Srinivas,
                      >
                      > John Rusk is an agile consultant in NZ who has experience crafting
                      > contracts for fixed-bid and other types of agile work. You might
                      want
                      > to ask him about this. His website is at http://www.agilekiwi.com/.
                      >
                      > Dave




                      --
                      Angela Martin
                      Aha! Facilitator

                      Martin IT Consulting
                      p : +44 7717 653 971
                      e : angela@...
                      w : http://www.martinitconsulting.com
                    • srinivas chillara
                      ... Well, optimistaclly yes, but I am happy just to have ideas. And your earlier reply is very useful, as has Angela Martin s post/reference. When you say that
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 4, 2007
                        > I'm afraid I can't provide any text from real
                        > contracts in this forum
                        > (which I think is wah Srinivas was asking for),


                        Well, optimistaclly yes, but I am happy just to have
                        ideas.
                        And your earlier reply is very useful, as has Angela
                        Martin's post/reference. When you say that it is
                        similar, I was happy jsut to know the difeerences.

                        I was wondering how the contract can distribute risk
                        to both parties fairly. Also how much role trust can
                        play in this.




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