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RE: [scrumdevelopment] mention of Scrum in "Software Development"

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  • Tiseo, Paul
    From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 1:37 PM ... I wholeheartedly agree, but that is a problem that plagues
    Message 1 of 40 , Nov 12 10:49 AM
      From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 1:37 PM
      > I get worried when people publish as authoritative what
      > they haven't spent the time to investigate, and fear the
      > consequences if these people are perceived as authoritative.

      I wholeheartedly agree, but that is a problem that plagues almost all
      journalism these days.

      > Of course CSM isn't the answer. There is no substitute for character

      Amen to that...

      PS: I suspected it was sent in frustration and wasn't a new Scrum missive to
      the masses! :) Look forward to meeting you some day, Ken.

      ______________________________________________________
      Paul Tiseo, Systems Programmer
      Research Computing Facility
      Mayo Clinic Jacksonville, Griffin 371
      tiseo123.paul456@...

      I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as
      equals. - Winston Churchill
    • Jeff Sutherland
      While I agree with Mike in general, it is of interest that the first Scrum was building an OOAD tool and we decided the team should eat their own dogfood. It
      Message 40 of 40 , Nov 14 6:54 AM
        While I agree with Mike in general, it is of interest that the first Scrum
        was building an OOAD tool and we decided the team should eat their own
        dogfood. It was also the first round trip engineering tool.

        Every developer had the model of his components on his wall.

        Our senior consultant, Jeff McKenna, an ace Smalltalker, would walk into a
        cube and an hour later the model was in shreds on the floor. He had shown
        the developer how to refactor the model and eliminate half the code while
        enhancing performance and functionality.

        I've never seen another team that can operate at that level.

        Jeff

        At 05:07 AM 11/14/2003, Mike Beedle wrote:
        >...
        >
        >Mark wrote:
        > > Mike has said repeatedly that he feels that
        > > modeling isn't necessary in order to produce quality code. Scott
        > > Ambler, myself, and some within the XP community have the opinion that
        >
        > > modeling, when necessary, and to the proper level of detail and
        > > formality, provides an important element in the design and
        > > implementation of software.
        >
        >This is also a fact:
        >
        > We produce hyper-productive, high-octane, high-quality,
        > high-quantity software with little or no models.
        >
        >So no, models are not important to us, as they are not as
        >important to most agile developers. (We minimize "documentation time"
        >by documenting after the fact.)
        >
        >But like I said earlier, if you feel modeling helps your team, or
        >is needed for political reasons, or you like how the models look on
        >display on the walls, hey, more power to you.
        >
        >Good luck with all of your projects!!!!
        >
        >
        >- Mike
        >
        >(It was nice to talk to you on the phone earlier this evening, btw.)
        >
        >
        >Mark wrote:
        > > P.S. I'm looking forward to taking the CSM course some time in the
        > > near future. Perhaps I'll walk away cured of my modeling sickness. :-)
        >
        >In 1994-1996 I was involved in a 100+ person, 30 million dollar
        >software development project. By year 2 we had 1000+ pages of:
        >
        > Elaborated Use Cases
        > Class Package Diagrams
        > Class Diagrams
        > Sequence Diagrams
        > Test Plans
        >
        >but no working software. Within the last 4 months of the project
        >I took over the project, *ignored all the previous models*,
        >applied Scrum to the project and delivered the first instance
        >of the application to production on 1/1/1996.
        >
        >(I have many other, almost countless experiences like that.)
        >
        >This is why I don't do models anymore -- they NEVER delivered the
        >goods for me in the trenches.
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