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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Program/Project Office - Roadblocks to Agile

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  • Ken Schwaber
    We like to think that capitalism is always a good thing and that the market separates the wheat from the chaff. I m not sure that this is true in our industry.
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 12, 2003
      We like to think that capitalism is always a good thing and that the market
      separates the wheat from the chaff. I'm not sure that this is true in our
      industry. I think that if XP and Scrum ever get "marketed" and there is big
      money in them, the jig is up and they will be perverted like most good
      ideas. I'm for them remaining ideas, not products.
      Ken

      -----Original Message-----
      From: David J. Anderson [mailto:netherby_uk@...]
      Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 4:56 PM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Program/Project Office - Roadblocks
      to Agile


      Uhhh come one Bob! Say what you really feel.

      We all know that Rational employees sell what their
      bosses train them to sell which is "complexity equals
      billable hours".

      Let me tell you just one of my career anecdotes
      working with consultants from Rational. The name of
      this well known mid-western telecommunications company
      will be ommitted to protect the incompetent.

      Our VP gets architecture religion and is persuaded to
      buy a 300 person site license for RUP and Rose and
      everything that goes with it. This costs $3.5M
      dollars. Rational deploy 3 consultants to help with
      the installation. After 3 months the bill for these
      guys is almost $500K.

      The sum total of their deliverables at that time was a
      report on the line managers requirements for the
      version control system. They hadn't even installed any
      of the software. The MO was to run up the bill not
      deliver value.

      So I persuaded my friends at Togethersoft to give me a
      10 user licence for 90 days free and I had my team
      build a system using it. At the same time we implement
      FDD without permission. The result was a working
      system - and this product is available today from that
      well known telco - I could even link the webpage for
      it. The result was that our VP was persuaded and a 100
      user license for Together was purchased. The $4M on
      the Rational tools was quietly written off and
      Rational people were not permitted in the building
      again....

      ... until 2 years later when the VP and many other
      managers including me were gone, and the corporate HQ
      enforced Rational upon this developer group once
      again.

      Heavyweight makes Rational money. The only way they
      will go agile is for customers to refuse to buy their
      product and services unless they deliver it agile.
      Less is more only when the customer demands it.

      My experience with them is "caveat emptor".

      Regards,

      David


      --- "Robert Martin (UncleBob)"
      <unclebob@...> wrote:


      > From: "woynam" <woyna@...>
      > Subject: Re: Program/Project Office - Roadblocks to
      Agile
      >
      >
      > I've simply grown tired of RUP
      > taking the rap for a process gone wrong when it was
      the implementation
      > of the process that didn't work.

      At its core, RUP is an iterative process that could
      certainly be called
      Agile. Indeed, it is possible to do XP in a way that
      conforms with RUP.
      Still, the RUP literature, and the RUP pundits, do not
      often sell it that
      way. For the most part RUP is sold and taught as a
      large heaviweight
      process. This can hardly be blamed on those who sell
      it. They sell what
      their customers want.



      =====
      David J Anderson
      Author of "Agile Management for Software Engineering"
      http://www.agilemanagement.net/

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    • David J. Anderson
      Ken, I couldn t agree more. You articulate this very well. Economists assume that we (the people) behave rationally. However, rational decisions require an
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 12, 2003
        Ken,

        I couldn't agree more. You articulate this very well.
        Economists assume that we (the people) behave
        rationally. However, rational decisions require an
        objective analysis and fundamental understanding of a
        problem. There can be nothing objective about magic.
        For many software development remains a black art -
        magic. Therefore, rational behavior is (probably)
        impossible.

        David

        [Note the small "r" throughout this post :-)]


        --- Ken Schwaber <ken.schwaber@...> wrote:

        We like to think that capitalism is always a good
        thing and that the market
        separates the wheat from the chaff. I'm not sure that
        this is true in our
        industry. I think that if XP and Scrum ever get
        "marketed" and there is big
        money in them, the jig is up and they will be
        perverted like most good
        ideas. I'm for them remaining ideas, not products.
        Ken



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