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Re: Experience with Rallydev's SLM tools?

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  • Siddharta Govindaraj
    Hi, I think Ron has a good point here, in that all these technologies are great when the people you are interacting with are not next to you. But do you really
    Message 1 of 37 , Mar 1, 2007
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      I think Ron has a good point here, in that all these technologies are
      great when the people you are interacting with are not next to you.
      But do you really want to be chatting on IM when the person is right
      next to you? It happens - once you have IM, you would rather IM from
      your desk than walk two cubicles away. Tools can be good if we
      specifically look out for and avoid that anti-pattern.

      I think distributed teams (multiple cities) have pretty much no choice
      and these tools can be a great help for improving interaction in these

      Colocated teams, on the other hand, have much better interaction
      possibilities, and using a tool may not be neccesary. There could
      still be good reasons for one - distant customer or remote executives
      who want to see the progress, for example, or other special
      requirements - but if everyone is colocated, I prefer to go low tech.

      There is a fuzzy middle area where the team is distributed on
      different floors or different offices in the same city, and the
      decision must be taken whether to colocate the teams or use a tool.
      I'd vote for colocation if possible, tool otherwise.

      Siddharta Govindaraj
      Catalyst - A project management tool for distributed and agile teams
      Personal Blog: http://siddhi.blogspot.com

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
      <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
      > Hello, Eb. On Wednesday, February 28, 2007, at 1:25:06 PM, you
      > wrote:
      > > I'd argue that web based tech has increased the amount of
      > > interaction between people generally - I'd also note that I keep
      > > in touch with a whole host of people via IM and Wiki's and
      > > interaction is certainly up for me compared with the early 90's.
      > I would think that most people would agree that technology has
      > increased the options. As I type this message here, I am also having
      > a chat with someone from Germany
      > > I know Lewwwent and I know the team - they are anything but
      > > isolated and non interactive - for photographic proof search
      > > Flickr for "Pizza On Rails"
      > > I think what is being exhibited here (generally not specifically
      > > you G) is a generational gap in thinking about what interaction
      > > is. MySpace, del.icio.us, Facebook, Blogs all that web 2.0 jazz -
      > > has shown that plenty of people interact online and that some web
      > > technologies actually just give you another option to face to face
      > > real time interaction.
      > Oddly enough, even those of us from several generations ago know
      > that. We also prefer to date real women and pair program face to
      > face.
      > > Yes face to face real time is be better most of the time - but
      > > that does not mean that technologically mediated comms channel are
      > > all bad and lead to non agile behaviour.
      > They aren't ALL bad and they don't LEAD to non-agile behavior. On
      > the other hand they are not AS GOOD, and they HINDER agile behavior,
      > to some degree.
      > As someone who recommends things, I feel that it's best to push for
      > the best, while accepting reality. But reality is changeable ... so
      > accepting less isn't always as "pragmatic" as people think it is.
      > As someone who has worked both ways ... and seen teams transition in
      > both directions, I'm of the opinion that no one who hasn't gone all
      > the way has a good enough sense of the value to decide not to go
      > there.
      > > I think we need some flexibility here in our thinking around what
      > > it means to interact.
      > I use email here because we can't talk. Doesn't mean it's best. IMO
      > it's not.
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > But the attitude of faith is to let go, and become open to
      > truth, whatever it might turn out to be. -- Alan Watts
    • Ron Jeffries
      ... I don t. :) ... Yes ... ... I wouldn t presume to know that. I ll comment. ... Why do you do these things? Who uses them, and how? Would you use them if
      Message 37 of 37 , Mar 8, 2007
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        Hello, Eb. On Sunday, March 4, 2007, at 9:47:22 AM, you wrote:

        > What can I say - I agree with pretty much everything you've said.

        I don't. :)

        > I totally get George's angle that tools can breed isolation and
        > complacency, in any environment too - and that its hard to resist
        > allure of "well I sent you a mail - why don't you understand". I
        > appreciate that you are advocating best practice in the tools and
        > methods that people use.

        Yes ...

        > So let me reconfig the whole thing into a question, I'll describe my
        > environment and everyone can tell me how to make it best practice?

        I wouldn't presume to know that. I'll comment.

        > We have a team of 5 - plus a scrum master - plus a product owner(me
        > for a certain stream) - One of the team (actually the longest serving
        > member) moved out of London several years ago and it was agreed by
        > previous mgmt that she would work from home 4 days and come into the
        > office for one.

        > We scrum every day (one by skype conf) we use campfire to record the
        > 'what I did and what I'll do' for each team member. We use del.icio.us
        > for anything interesting we find online. Sometimes we use cardmeeting.com

        Why do you do these things? Who uses them, and how? Would you use
        them if you didn't have the out of town person?

        > We used only cards and whiteboard for about 6 months. With excel for
        > burndown. We now use cards for sprint planning and collecting stories,
        > and record them in Scrumworks. The team in the office sit in a row of
        > two deep facing each other in an open plan office (tried to change
        > that).

        I wouldn't, at least not much. Open office is usually more

        > We use a wiki to record retrospectives, team working practice,
        > ideas etc.

        Does anyone read it? Why? No, seriously. You're in the same room.

        > We dont pair yet - tho we are about to start. We do CI as
        > much as possible and follow TDD as much as possible and push for more.

        As much as possible meaning ... as much as we currently do?

        > We estimate in story points. Sprint is planned based on task time and
        > the ammount of time the team has avail. The team are expected to have
        > 5 hrs coding time a day. Oh and we use SVN for source and Mantis for
        > bug tracking tho largely we've been pretty clean so far...fingers crossed.

        > Is this a good/bad balance of paper and computer? What would you try
        > to change/introduce?

        I really don't know ... I'd have to watch you. Are you happy with
        what you're getting? How could results be better for you?

        Ron Jeffries
        Get over it. -- The Eagles
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