RE: [scrumdevelopment] X-Men or A-men? (Agile-Men)
- Ron writes:
> Well, in that charming way I have, let me turn this idea onThe X-Men in me, really likes the attention XP gets. The A-Men
> its side just to see what it looks like ... basically I'm going
> to suggest that regret might be an appropriate feeling but
> that resentment is not.
in me, says likes to get his own comic strip, and his
own super-hero movie :-) Oh, and a model dressed in a Navy suit.
> Transforming resentment to regret might, however helpThanks, Ron, now I feel resentment and regret :-), maybe it is
> generate activities that will get Scrum more of the
> attention you rightly feel it deserves.
> I could be spouting nonsense. :)
me the one spouting nonsense .... More seriously, let me
dress my feelings with that word in the next 24 hrs and see
if that feels right.
> If I choose to write an article about aerobic exercise, are youAh, but the article was about the "ongoing revolution",
> going to be resentful because I don't say all the potential
> good things about diet?
not only about XP. That's the problem: the touting,
the exaggeration, the misunderstanding, the abuse,
the lack of investigation of previous art, the misinformation,
the lack of foundation, etc.; she could have at least
thrown some statistics (they tend to be better lies).
> Yes, well, I want to suggest that XP may well be theDo we know that? For all I know, there might be more
> main agent of change.
Scrum projects than XP projects. Scrum might be the
"main agent of change" :-)
The above might actually be a true statement.
Therefore, it is hard to pass these statements as true:
Software development is undergoing a dramatic
change with the advent of extreme programming (XP),
in which programmers o-develop code, thus
shortening the development loop and eliminating
lengthy upfront planning periods typical of traditional,
XP is expected to eradicate the chronic tardiness
that afflicts all but 18 percent of IT
projects, according to an annual Standish Group survey, and
significantly reduce the rollout of consistently buggy
My built-in LogicTest framework says on statement 1) false.
There are other important contributors; and on statement 2) false.
very exaggerated prediction conflicting with statement 1.
> And had we not flinched when we were being blackmaixxxxxxxxPerhaps, but now we have a better more diverse agile universe :-)
> talked into renaming XP Universe, it might have even more.
I don't know anything about the blackmai******. I thought
it was simply a friendly gesture from a amicable tribe.
> I'm not saying that would have been a good thing,I am certainly not trying to kill any babies. I like XP,
> just that it might have been a thing. I think the agile
> community would be stronger were we more integrated
> instead of going around killing each others babies.
I sponsor XP, as well as Scrum, but I like truths to be told --
even about babies (or babes when appropriate :-).
> Jim Highsmith has the right idea: CMM and UP are the enemy.)I am not sure we need CMM and UP as "enemies". We could
Software Project Failure(s)
as our collective enemy. That would avoid confrontations
but almost always include many CMM and UP projects. Actually,
as far as I know they already "joined" in lip-service
mode, claiming "they have always been on this side of the fence".
Well, perhaps this is a good opportunity to actually
change their ways :-)
(The "Mike Beedle" of 6 months ago, would have been
incapable of writing the above sentences. Surely
some neurogenesis has occurred within my political cortex.)
Mike B. wrote:
>> The statements above even credit XP with a futuristicRon writes:
>> "silver bullet" of fixing the tardiness of all other
>> software projects.
> The paragraph does suggest that XP eliminates tardiness. In myAh, but it is not an article about XP. It is an article that
> experience, it does. There may be other ways. She's writing
> about this one.
"Software development is undergoing a dramatic
change with the advent of extreme programming (XP) ...."
in her own words. That's the first sentence of the article.
(I should have been a lawyer like my father, I probably would
have made a lot more money that way ;-), but hey I am an
"agile developer" at heart.)
Mike B. wrote:
> But many of these "biggest advantages" are also fundamentalRon wrote:
> in other agile methods... like Scrum.
> Uh, gee, I think that's not the case at all. Scrum does notOh, perhaps not in a the one limited Scrum book (I hear it is
> specify instant feedback and continuous testing, its small releases
> are at least twice as far apart as XP's, and perhaps 20 times,
> Scrum does not have a metaphor practice or a simple design
> practice, it does not specify refactoring, it does not specify
> pair programming, it does not specify continuous integration,
> and so on.
a good book, btw), or the couple of web sites, but Scrum
"in practice" has had many of these things from
its early start. Most certainly:
- instant feedback (minute-by-minute feedback, daily
feedback, Sprint feedback, ... we should have
called it "Layered Feedback" not Scrum !!!)
- continuous testing (You should have seen Jeff
Sutherland TIAC site and presentation in 1996. He
talked about regression testing a lot back then, and
we practiced that, of course. I think controlchaos.com
still ahs some of that material on-line.)
- Small Releases. yes, we do at least one Daily Customer Build
- Continuous Integration. oh yes, again even Jeff Sutherland's
TIAC site in 1996 talked about this, and I believe even
early versions of controlchaos.com in 1996/1997 had lots
I admit that Scrum never documented the "simple design",
"refactoring", and or "pairing" practices, but I think it
always implicitly operated that way anyhow. Most Scrumers
do these things naturally.
And no, Scrum doesn't have the "metaphor" practice, but
I know very few people in the XP camp that actually practice this
> Scrum is silent on those issues. That can be an advantage,Perhaps XP@Scrum does. XBreed is about managing multiple
> as you well know, because Scrum can play in areas where XP
> can't be sold. However, it also opens the need for things like
> XBreed and XP@Scrum, which bring in various selected useful
> practices in areas where Scrum is silent.
concurrent agile projects not simply a mixture of
> The other agile methods are also largely silent on theTrue.
> practices about which XP is so explicit, with some benefits
> -- easier to fit in -- and some drawbacks -- not so clear
> what to really do.
Mike B wrote:
> > Do you see now why someone outside the XP camp may getRon wrote:
> > resentful? XP is the prima donna among agile methods.
> Yes, XP is the most well known among agile methods. That is inTrue. XPers did a great job about documentation.
> part due to the efforts of so many people in talking about it
> in so many forums. It is in part due to the specificity
> of its practices. And it is in part due to sheer luck.
We, Scrumers, should follow that example.
> I wouldn't necessarily claim that XP is the best of theNo doubt, XP is the most complete(ly) documented agile method.
> agile methods. I might be willing to claim that for projects
> of size up to about 50 people, it's the most complete. And
> I would definitely use XBreed and XP@Scrum as evidence of
> that completeness.
But I would claim that Scrum in practice is equally complete.
Mike B wrote:
> The only positive thing I see with articles like this isRon wrote:
> that they keep transmitting the message:
> there is NEW thing and it is worthwhile looking at it
> Hopefully many will go looking and then discover at least
> I would prefer if they would expose "agile" -- it would be more
> accurate, imnsho,
> I generally try to use the word agile as frequently as I can,Thanks. I think that is fair.
> in part because it will fly in places where the word XP will
> not. I like the manifesto values and principles that you
> and I and the others put together, as an expression of what
> we're about.
For us, Scrumers, it is easier to "Stay Agile!" than to
"Stay Scrumy!" ;-)
> This young lady chose to write about XP. I ratherIf she had written about XP only I would be ok with
> like the article, while some XPers, including at least one
> major one, hated it.
the article. What heated my blood was the exaggerations,
the misinformation, and the lack of "previous art" references.
I am actually glad that at least XP is getting the
attention, even though is running with some extra credits
it hardly deserves. (It is like having your twin brother
acing an exam and turning into valedictorian but knowing that
you gave him half of the answers. This last statement
is surely nonsense... metaphors are hard.)
> I can suggest some ways to do it. A thousand pages on wikiSome of us keep working at it :-)
> and a couple of thousand pages of books would be two of
> them. That's how XP did it.
Now to the "sigs" discussion.
Mike B. wrote:
> "Our immortality will be a matter of being sufficiently careful toRon responded:
> make frequent backups." Ray Kurzweil
> I expect that after I die, my backup will feel really happyBut would it be you down in the bed? Is you, your physical
> when we boot it up. I don't expect that to comfort me while
> I lie suffering in my final bed of pain.
you? your mind? your consciousness? your soul? The
likely answer is all of the above as far as we know today.
But within the next 10 years we will be able to save
exact neural net replicas of our minds to persistence, and
possibly within the next 30 years we might attain
"artificial consciousness" through robotic extensions.
What is then _you_?
Moreover, in the next 50-100 years we will be able to use
gene treatment to manipulate the growth and characteristics
of any human tissue, you could then simply "fix yourself
through gene drugs and live forever", "enhance yourself
through gene drugs" -- if you can afford it, or download
an image of your mind to another physical or artificial
brain or being, and _be_ there as an invited or uninvited
But what then would it be _you_?
Mike B. wrote:
> "What you do you want to be today?"Ron responded:
> Excellent question. Worth contemplating.I don't mean just "what saved or altered image of you
do you want to run today?", of course :-)
Even among all options above it makes sense to ask:
"What you do you want to be today?"
Certainly not one that _steals_ credits from others....
Even a downloaded image of self, wouldn't want to
> Best and fondest regards,Likewise. It was fun.