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RES: [scrumdevelopment] Digest Number 389

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  • Julio Hartmann
    Maybe in other fields people are more fammiliar with applying the scientific method by doing empirical experimentation. However, it seems to me that computer
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 29, 2003
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      Maybe in other fields people are more fammiliar with applying the
      scientific method by doing empirical experimentation. However, it seems to
      me that computer scientists and IT professionals are used with solving
      problems using deterministic approaches and formalisms. Perhaps it explains
      the resistance to understanding Scrum applied to software development.

      Julio.

      -----Mensagem original-----
      De: Mary Poppendieck [mailto:mary@...]
      Enviada em: Friday, August 29, 2003 9:14 AM
      Para: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Assunto: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Digest Number 389


      Marc,

      I don't see how Waterfall (sequential development) can be considered a
      form of the Scientific Method. I wonder what your definition of
      Scientific Method might be to come to such a conclusion.

      Both my husband and son were seeped in using the scientific method while
      they got their PhD's, and what they did was pretty much the same as
      iterative software development. Research on Toyota reports that the
      "DNA" of Toyota is the Scientific Method: Analyze, Experiment, Measure,
      Change based on the results.

      I understand the Scientific Method to be the basis of the learning cycle
      necessary to adapt to change. It accepts uncertainty and explores it.
      Even if some have a different idea of these words, this is what the
      Scientific Method means to many people, and in particular to the people
      who use it.

      Suggesting that the Scientific Method is a metaphor for deterministic
      behavior twists the meaning of the words and garbles the message badly.

      Mary Poppendieck
      www.poppendieck.com
      Author of Lean Software Development: An Agile Toolkit

      Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:11:55 -0400
      From: Marc Hamann <marc@...>
      Subject: Re: Scrum and Process Improvement
      Many human beings (let's face it, all of us at some time or another)
      cannot
      accept the fundamental uncertainty of such things, and will cling to
      dogmatic religion, political ideology, or more technocratic forms of the

      scientific method (such as Waterfall ;-)) rather than embrace the chaos
      that is the inherent property of any sufficiently complex system.


      Marc




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    • Anko Tijman
      ... The ISO model that predicts continuous improvement talks about: Plan, Do, Check, Act. Different words, same intentions?!? Just a thought.... Anko Tijman
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 1 2:12 AM
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        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Poppendieck"
        <mary@p...> wrote:

        > Research on Toyota reports that the "DNA" of Toyota is the
        > Scientific Method: Analyze, Experiment, Measure, Change based on
        > the results.

        The ISO model that predicts continuous improvement talks about:
        Plan, Do, Check, Act.

        Different words, same intentions?!?
        Just a thought....


        Anko Tijman
        ***************************************************************
        The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook.
        --William James, 1890
        ***************************************************************
      • Mike Beedle
        Probably equivalent, and similar if not equivalent to the Daily and Sprint Scrum cycles: Scrum Daily Cycle: Report- Self-Organize (i.e. adhoc Plan)- Pair-
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 8 12:58 AM
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          Probably equivalent, and similar if not equivalent to the
          Daily and Sprint Scrum cycles:


          Scrum Daily Cycle:
          Report->Self-Organize (i.e. adhoc Plan)->Pair-> Test-> Develop,
          ->Test->Deliver-> back to Report

          Scrum Sprint Cycle:
          Demo->Get Feedback->Plan and Reprioritize->Execute (self-
          organize)->Test -> back to Demo

          They key is the lenghts and the layers of feedback cycles,

          - Mike


          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Anko Tijman" <atijman@v...>
          wrote:
          > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Poppendieck"
          > <mary@p...> wrote:
          >
          > > Research on Toyota reports that the "DNA" of Toyota is the
          > > Scientific Method: Analyze, Experiment, Measure, Change based on
          > > the results.
          >
          > The ISO model that predicts continuous improvement talks about:
          > Plan, Do, Check, Act.
          >
          > Different words, same intentions?!?
          > Just a thought....
          >
          >
          > Anko Tijman
          > ***************************************************************
          > The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook.
          > --William James, 1890
          > ***************************************************************
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