Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: [ANN] New Forum / Board Available --
- Not stupid questions. And I am happy to see a "semi-newbie" posting. Maybe I am making a difference (smile). One person at a time.
If everything for Scrum needed to be passed through Ken, we would be at a roadblock as a community. What about self-sufficiency? I agree that Ken has done us all a service by starting this group. Both controlchaos and the Scrum Alliance (up until the end of this year, be it not for the trainers gathering in April) are for profit corporations, owned by Ken and others. He has done a marvelous job of marketing Scrum, and I thank him for it. He is clearly the thought leader.
While I agree that being "sanctioned" by the Scrum Alliance or Ken would be a great thing, I also think we need to start thinking outside the normal box and still look to Ken for vision etc, as the thought leader he should provide that. As a community of 8000 plus Certified Scrum Masters, it seems we can do more together than just what is happening on this list. Where will it lead? Who knows. Inspecting and adapting. What tipped me over the edge (to start the new forum) is that over the weekend I found out that one of the more vocal people on this group was banned (by Ken) for their writings. That I find unacceptable; however, this IS Ken's personal board and he can do with it what he wants. Thus, an alternative. Like many that are out there today.
Also.... I am actively involved in the Scrum community (including helping with the new Scrum Alliance site (because yes, we know, the old one sucks) and spending my own time and money going to trainer gatherings and other events...). I am but one person. Not affiliated with anyone else or any other company.
I am not saying I am a guru in this space (far from the likes of Ken and others); however, I have received many many many emails supporting my stance for the "silent" people reading this thread about my position. Is it popular? Nope. And as a like a lot of things Scrum does, it puts stuff like this out into the open for being discussed.
Like I have stated earlier, I think any new forums or threads can be complimentary to this one and help grow the community as a whole.
Now, let's get back to helping people learn more about Scrum -- wherever and whenever we can (smile).
- mike vizdos
www.implementingscrum.comOn 11/28/06, Graeme Matthew < scrum@...> wrote:
Michael. I am one of those semi-newbies that often asks stupid
questions, these stupid questions allow me to learn.
Your idea is warranted.
I agree that a forum, with categorised threads would be easier to read
etc, but I honestly think that it should be discussed with Ken et al and
rather be a Scrum Community initiative that is agreed by the core group
on this mailing list. I think this should have been discussed with Ken
et al prior to announcing a 'fork.' What happens when the next person
decides the same thing in say 6 months time, the knowledge, advice and
questions will become diluted across multiple mediums, which I do not
think is good.
From a marketing / recognition perspective it would have a lot more
punch if it was hosted by the Agile Alliance , ControlChaos etc, I am
not saying that you are not recognised or valued.
Hope this makes sense
Michael Vizdos wrote:
> Hey I am right there with you for honesty... one of the things Scrum
> lets us do (us... us) is have the ability to bring up elephants in the
> closet. I am not suggesting forking this group (as others have) -- I
> just want to be able to offer an alternative place for people who
> select to use a different medium of communication.
> I will continue to post here and hopefully add value to the community
> for as long as I can.
> - mike
> www.implementingscrum.com < http://www.implementingscrum.com>
> www.michaelvizdos.com <http://www.michaelvizdos.com>
> On 11/28/06, *Abrachan* <pabrachan@...
> <mailto:pabrachan@...>> wrote:
> Thanks to Ken and Sutherland for attempting to liberate the Software
> engineering community. From the bottom of my heart I appreciate your
> efforts (for daring to take the challenge), to re-invent the natural
> way of developing software. A forking of this group due to inability
> to digest alternative views is not going to be successfull. Iam not
> looking forward to others opinions. This is just my view. Thanks to
> all the pigs for making this group successful and this group is of
> immense value to people like me, who do not dare to claim the 'Guru'
> status, becuase we adore the leadership thoughts of the founders of
> SCRUM, and acknowledge their ability to ruthlessly honest at all
> times, for years together.
> --- In email@example.com
> <mailto:scrumdevelopment%40yahoogro ups.com>, "Heiramo Petri"> ----------------------------------------------------------
> <petri.heiramo@...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > As much time as reading these posts here take me, I find it worth
> all the (even heated) discussion since I've received so many
> different ideas posted here. I personally view Agile (and Scrum)
> more a mindset than a group of practices. Granted, the practices are
> ingenious in many occasions and the agility in them shines through,
> but you can't understand the practices if you don't get the ideas
> behind them. You will only see the practice and start to
> add "improvements" to them, making them closer to your old ways of
> working (some waterfallish model, most likely).
> > So I would not hope this list to be split to separate practical
> and methodological discussions. Those two are too intertwined to be
> separated. I'd also hope Ken would tolerate some "non-topic"
> discussion, as long as it supports the Agile values presented in
> Scrum. :)
> > I've found this list very valuable to me and would like to close
> by thanking Ken for setting this list up and for all present for
> their valuable ideas!
> > Yours Sincerely,
> > Petri Heiramo
> > Process Improvement Manager
> > SysOpen Digia Plc
> > Smartphone Business Division
> > Hämeentie 135 A, FI-00560 Helsinki, Finland
> > Email: petri.heiramo@...
> > Tel: +358 424 77771 Gsm: + 358 40 7092 526
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