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Re: More newbie questions...

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  • Deb
    ... people ... I think we (IT) need to stop TELLING customers what they want, and actively engage them in telling us what *they* want. We need to become
    Message 1 of 33 , Aug 3 7:19 AM
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      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Boris Gloger <boris@g...>
      wrote:

      > How do you change the organization in a way that the business
      people
      > accept that we (IT) questions their view.
      >
      > > I think the Agile movement is trying to redefine
      > > what successful development looks like. Success in development =
      > > demonstrable value for the Customer.
      >
      > > Who decides what this is?

      I think we (IT) need to stop TELLING customers what they want, and
      actively engage them in telling us what *they* want. We need to
      become excellent "askers of questions". Perhaps this is another
      important shift Scrum requires: that we have the humility to become
      the student rather than always the teacher. Within our own domain is
      one thing - but in the Customer's domain, we must let them drive. If
      they don't know how to drive, we must find the talent within IT to
      teach them to drive.
      >
      > > As evaluated BY THE CUSTOMER
      > > (hence, active stakeholder participation). That's it! (Remembering
      > > that ease of maintenance is also of value to the Customer - and we
      > > must educate them in this).
      >
      > Your are right, but you can not educate someone who does not want
      to
      > learn.

      True. That's why I'm reading on Leadership these days. I'm convinced
      that we must become leaders, whom others want to emulate and follow -
      and more importantly, we must over time teach all members of the team
      to take leadership when appropriate (including Customers). I've seen
      this done, and it's awesome - it develops the true meaning
      of "empowerment" (a word much maligned these days because it's been
      hijacked or abused by those with other agendas).

      deb
    • Mike Beedle
      ... Christian: But in Scrum we also show what is done every day. Remember, Daily Build and Daily Scrum are basic Scrum patterns. A while ago Jeff
      Message 33 of 33 , Aug 12 2:20 AM
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        > From: "Christian Knott" <chrisknott@...>
        > With Scrum, we get to show what's been done every 30 days. That means
        > that the "alignment smell" gets to be put on view once a month
        > instead of, well, never in many other cases.

        Christian:

        But in Scrum we also show what is done every day. Remember,
        "Daily Build" and "Daily Scrum" are basic Scrum patterns.

        A while ago Jeff Sutherland pointed to an article written by
        Martin Fowler about continuous integration. All good and dandy.
        It is great to have things like Anthill produce automatic builds
        and run batches of unit tests. But it is also important for
        the Customer to interact with stable versions of the application
        and give feedback from hands-on experience on a daily basis.

        Also, there are things like Fit and Fitnesse that attempt to
        Automate "acceptance testing". Our style is to do this
        through "human interaction" -- there are some things that
        we feel are best leaving non-automated i.e. where we want humans
        involved.

        In our development we have perhaps hundreds if not thousands
        of builds every day, and thousands of check ins and updates,
        but we advertise at least one stable build daily for the customers
        to play with.


        > For the specific problem of fuzzily defined requirements for reports,
        > I'm with Ron, pretty much. My difference: do something. Anything.
        > Guestimate what the report should be, do it quickly, then mark it
        done.

        Well, "mark it done" might be pushing your luck.
        Some customers take it very offensively to "mark things done"
        if they are not done. But certainly, getting a report out
        for someone to see will start the feedback loops. (Don't forget
        to update your daily estimate to completion after some work
        and feedback are produced :-)


        > The donors/owners will soon start griping, and you can convert
        > their gripes into requirements that go on the product backlog.

        True.

        - Mike
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