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XPatScrum, Xbreed

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  • caelumse
    I have some questions about XPatScrum/Xbreed: When will there be more information available on XPatScrum/Xbreed? Do the XP community see a need for
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 7, 2001
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      I have some questions about XPatScrum/Xbreed:

      When will there be more information available on XPatScrum/Xbreed?

      Do the XP community see a need for XPatScrum/Xbreed?

      Won't XPatScrum/Xbreed decrease the teams authority to work as they
      like?

      Regards,
      Jonas
    • Mike Beedle
      ... Jonas: From the XBreed perspective, I can tell you that I am planning to spend more time documenting it in the next year because I have several clients
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 7, 2001
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        Jonas asks:
        > When will there be more information available on XPatScrum/Xbreed?

        Jonas:

        From the XBreed perspective, I can tell you that I am planning
        to spend more time documenting it in the next year because
        I have several clients that will be using it, and I have the
        proposal to write a book on it.

        Jonas asks:
        > Do the XP community see a need for XPatScrum/Xbreed?

        I think they do see the need. But even more important the
        clients doing XP do see the need. XBreed in fact wasn't
        a thought-driven method. It emerged from the needs to
        do enterprise development in an environment where
        multiple applications with dependencies existed.

        Basically, it is the natural evolution from managing
        one project into managing and coordinating dependencies
        among multiple projects. For enterprise style development
        is unavoidable.

        Jonas asks:
        > Won't XPatScrum/Xbreed decrease the teams authority to
        > work as they like?

        I think you are right, there is a compromise and overhead
        associated in developing reusable components, because now
        the teams need to involve other teams in their decisions.

        This is akin to the compromise between the well-being of
        an individual, in this case a single application development
        team, and the society, the rest of the enterprise development
        teams.

        And depending on how complex the reusable components are and
        their overall impact across multiple teams they incur
        more or less overhead.

        On the other hand, the benefits for an organization are
        potentially very large. We have been able to save
        our clients millions of dollars because complex components
        like a "Create Order" component, that took 6 months to
        develop can be reused in at least 4 teams. So doing
        the math is something like:

        CDRC < CDASC

        CDRC = Cost of developing reusable components
        CDASC = Cost of developing application-specific
        components

        CDRC = 6 months + overhead
        CDASC = 6 months x 4 = 24 months

        For other components like a "Find Beneficiary" the
        cost benefits are even more impressive since about
        12 applications will be able to reuse the component
        eventually.

        So I think from the perspective of ROI (return on
        investment), XBreed is well-justified,

        - Mike

        Mike Beedle http://www.mikebeedle.com

        e-Architects Inc. http://www.e-architects.com
        Hipaa Accelerator http://www.hipaaccelerator.com

        XBreed http://www.xbreed.net
        Agile Scrum http://www.agilescrum.com

        Agile Alliance http://www.agilealliance.org
        Living Metaphor http://www.livingmetaphor.org
      • caelumse
        Mike, Thanks for you answers! ... I m pleased to hear that! Good luck! ... Nice! Is XPatScrum/Xbreed the only successful attempt to scale XP up? ... Ok, I can
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 7, 2001
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          Mike,
          Thanks for you answers!

          > Jonas asks:
          > > When will there be more information available on XPatScrum/Xbreed?
          >
          > Jonas:
          >
          > From the XBreed perspective, I can tell you that I am planning
          > to spend more time documenting it in the next year because
          > I have several clients that will be using it, and I have the
          > proposal to write a book on it.

          I'm pleased to hear that! Good luck!

          > Jonas asks:
          > > Do the XP community see a need for XPatScrum/Xbreed?
          >
          > I think they do see the need. But even more important the
          > clients doing XP do see the need. XBreed in fact wasn't
          > a thought-driven method. It emerged from the needs to
          > do enterprise development in an environment where
          > multiple applications with dependencies existed.
          >
          > Basically, it is the natural evolution from managing
          > one project into managing and coordinating dependencies
          > among multiple projects. For enterprise style development
          > is unavoidable.

          Nice!
          Is XPatScrum/Xbreed the only successful attempt to scale XP up?

          > Jonas asks:
          > > Won't XPatScrum/Xbreed decrease the teams authority to
          > > work as they like?
          >
          > I think you are right, there is a compromise and overhead
          > associated in developing reusable components, because now
          > the teams need to involve other teams in their decisions.
          >
          > This is akin to the compromise between the well-being of
          > an individual, in this case a single application development
          > team, and the society, the rest of the enterprise development
          > teams.
          >
          > And depending on how complex the reusable components are and
          > their overall impact across multiple teams they incur
          > more or less overhead.
          >
          > On the other hand, the benefits for an organization are
          > potentially very large. We have been able to save
          > our clients millions of dollars because complex components
          > like a "Create Order" component, that took 6 months to
          > develop can be reused in at least 4 teams. So doing
          > the math is something like:
          >
          > CDRC < CDASC
          >
          > CDRC = Cost of developing reusable components
          > CDASC = Cost of developing application-specific
          > components
          >
          > CDRC = 6 months + overhead
          > CDASC = 6 months x 4 = 24 months
          >
          > For other components like a "Find Beneficiary" the
          > cost benefits are even more impressive since about
          > 12 applications will be able to reuse the component
          > eventually.
          >
          > So I think from the perspective of ROI (return on
          > investment), XBreed is well-justified,

          Ok, I can see that it is worth the effort to create reusable
          components.
          But even if you have just one team and use XPatScrum/Xbreed you still
          tell the team how to work. Is this really good or should you present
          XPatScrum/Xbreed to them and leave the decision up to them?

          Another question about multiple teams: when do they integrate their
          parts? Continuously during the Sprint or after the Sprint is done? As
          I have understood the question you use reuseable components after the
          Sprint is done. But how do you do when the different teams just
          develop different parts of the same system?

          /Jonas

          >
          > - Mike
          >
          > Mike Beedle http://www.mikebeedle.com
          >
          > e-Architects Inc. http://www.e-architects.com
          > Hipaa Accelerator http://www.hipaaccelerator.com
          >
          > XBreed http://www.xbreed.net
          > Agile Scrum http://www.agilescrum.com
          >
          > Agile Alliance http://www.agilealliance.org
          > Living Metaphor http://www.livingmetaphor.org
        • Ken Schwaber
          Thoughtworks and I are implementing xp@Scrum at a customer and just finished the first Sprint on a project that has utterly failed twice so far. At the Sprint
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 8, 2001
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            Thoughtworks and I are implementing xp@Scrum at a customer and just finished
            the first Sprint on a project that has utterly failed twice so far. At the
            Sprint review, they demonstrated functionality of value to the customer. Of
            equal importance, they demonstrated excellent engineering practices (based
            in XP), self-organization (based in Scrum), and excellent business
            involvement, ownership, and dynamic driving of the project to iteratively
            deliver value (Scrum). We were delighted.
            Ken

            -----Original Message-----
            From: caelumse [mailto:jonas.b@...]
            Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 1:14 PM
            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [scrumdevelopment] XPatScrum, Xbreed


            I have some questions about XPatScrum/Xbreed:

            When will there be more information available on XPatScrum/Xbreed?

            Do the XP community see a need for XPatScrum/Xbreed?

            Won't XPatScrum/Xbreed decrease the teams authority to work as they
            like?

            Regards,
            Jonas


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            scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

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          • Jonas Bengtsson
            Ken, I m pleased to hear that. Looking forward for more information about xp@Scrum! Regards, Jonas ... From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@verizon.net]
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 9, 2001
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              Ken,
              I'm pleased to hear that.

              Looking forward for more information about xp@Scrum!

              Regards,
              Jonas

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Ken Schwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@...]
              Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 3:14 AM
              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] XPatScrum, Xbreed


              Thoughtworks and I are implementing xp@Scrum at a customer and just finished
              the first Sprint on a project that has utterly failed twice so far. At the
              Sprint review, they demonstrated functionality of value to the customer. Of
              equal importance, they demonstrated excellent engineering practices (based
              in XP), self-organization (based in Scrum), and excellent business
              involvement, ownership, and dynamic driving of the project to iteratively
              deliver value (Scrum). We were delighted.
              Ken

              -----Original Message-----
              From: caelumse [mailto:jonas.b@...]
              Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 1:14 PM
              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] XPatScrum, Xbreed


              I have some questions about XPatScrum/Xbreed:

              When will there be more information available on XPatScrum/Xbreed?

              Do the XP community see a need for XPatScrum/Xbreed?

              Won't XPatScrum/Xbreed decrease the teams authority to work as they
              like?

              Regards,
              Jonas


              To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



              To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Mike Beedle
              ... Jonas: As far as I know, XPatScrum and XBreed are the only agile ways to scale agile development to multiple teams. Of course, both of them are strongly
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 9, 2001
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                > Jonas asks:
                >
                >> Jonas asks:
                >> > Do the XP community see a need for XPatScrum/Xbreed?
                >>
                >> I think they do see the need. But even more important the
                >> clients doing XP do see the need. XBreed in fact wasn't
                >> a thought-driven method. It emerged from the needs to
                >> do enterprise development in an environment where
                >> multiple applications with dependencies existed.
                >>
                >> Basically, it is the natural evolution from managing
                >> one project into managing and coordinating dependencies
                >> among multiple projects. For enterprise style development
                >> is unavoidable.
                >
                >Nice!
                >Is XPatScrum/Xbreed the only successful attempt to scale XP up?

                Jonas:

                As far as I know, XPatScrum and XBreed are the only "agile
                ways" to scale agile development to multiple teams.

                Of course, both of them are strongly based on Scrum,

                - Mike
                http://www.mikebeedle.com
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