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User Stories for Product Owners

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  • Peter Hundermark
    Hello Mike, We have just begun to implement Scrum on our first project (very exciting!) and it s hard to help the PO to write User Stories and create a
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
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      Hello Mike,

      We have just begun to implement Scrum on our first project (very
      exciting!) and it's hard to help the PO to write User Stories and
      create a prioritised Product Backlog when he or she is used to having
      an analyst gather requirements. I think a condensed version of USA for
      Product Owners would be a great help. I also imagine this would be a
      good "teaser" to sell more copies of the full book!

      I've just bought both books (USA & EAP) and am finding them extremely
      helpful, but I know I won't get every PO to read a full book.

      I hope this encourages you!

      Peter
    • Mike Cohn
      Hi Peter-- Thanks, this does help. I ve asked my publisher to look into the feasibility of this. A 20-30 page PDF eBook condensing _User Stories Applied_ for
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
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        Hi Peter--
        Thanks, this does help. I've asked my publisher to look into the feasibility of this. A 20-30 page PDF eBook condensing _User Stories Applied_ for product owners does seem like it would be useful.
        Thanks,
        Mike Cohn
        Author:
          Agile Estimating and Planning
          User Stories Applied
        www.mountaingoatsoftware.com


        On Oct 3, 2006, at 8:26 AM, Peter Hundermark wrote:

        Hello Mike,

        We have just begun to implement Scrum on our first project (very
        exciting!) and it's hard to help the PO to write User Stories and
        create a prioritised Product Backlog when he or she is used to having
        an analyst gather requirements. I think a condensed version of USA for
        Product Owners would be a great help. I also imagine this would be a
        good "teaser" to sell more copies of the full book!

        I've just bought both books (USA & EAP) and am finding them extremely
        helpful, but I know I won't get every PO to read a full book.

        I hope this encourages you!

        Peter


      • Steven Gordon
        Peter, What are the business analysts going to do now that Scrum is being implemented? If they are not being let go, perhaps one of them could work with each
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
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          Peter,

          What are the business analysts going to do now that Scrum is being
          implemented?

          If they are not being let go, perhaps one of them could work with each
          PO. An experienced analyst could not only help the PO write better
          user stories, but also outline the acceptance criteria or even write
          the acceptance tests.

          Just because it is the PO's responsibility does not mean they have to
          do the work by themselves.

          Steven Gordon

          On 10/3/06, Peter Hundermark <peterh@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Mike,
          >
          > We have just begun to implement Scrum on our first project (very
          > exciting!) and it's hard to help the PO to write User Stories and
          > create a prioritised Product Backlog when he or she is used to having
          > an analyst gather requirements. I think a condensed version of USA for
          > Product Owners would be a great help. I also imagine this would be a
          > good "teaser" to sell more copies of the full book!
          >
          > I've just bought both books (USA & EAP) and am finding them extremely
          > helpful, but I know I won't get every PO to read a full book.
          >
          > I hope this encourages you!
          >
          > Peter
        • Ron Jeffries
          Hello Steven, thanks for your ideas. On Tuesday, October 3, 2006, at ... Just so. I like teams to think of the Analysts, //and the testers// as staff to the
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
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            Hello Steven, thanks for your ideas. On Tuesday, October 3, 2006, at
            10:52:36 AM, you wrote:

            > What are the business analysts going to do now that Scrum is being
            > implemented?

            > If they are not being let go, perhaps one of them could work with each
            > PO. An experienced analyst could not only help the PO write better
            > user stories, but also outline the acceptance criteria or even write
            > the acceptance tests.

            > Just because it is the PO's responsibility does not mean they have to
            > do the work by themselves.

            Just so. I like teams to think of the Analysts, //and the testers//
            as staff to the PO.

            Ron Jeffries
            www.XProgramming.com
            Bang, bang, Jeffries' silver hammer came down upon their heads ...
          • ianralls01
            Hi Mike, This would be absolutely great for us... we struggle with conveying the concept to the various people in the business that would benefit from reading
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 4, 2006
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              Hi Mike,

              This would be absolutely great for us... we struggle with conveying
              the concept to the various people in the business that would benefit
              from reading the books, but don't. A more (dare I say
              it..) "lightweight" version for
              them would be greatly appreciated!
              Cheers,
              Ian

              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Mike Cohn <mike@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Peter--
              > Thanks, this does help. I've asked my publisher to look into the
              > feasibility of this. A 20-30 page PDF eBook condensing _User
              Stories
              > Applied_ for product owners does seem like it would be useful.
              > Thanks,
              > Mike Cohn
              > Author:
              > Agile Estimating and Planning
              > User Stories Applied
              > www.mountaingoatsoftware.com
              >
            • Peter Hundermark
              Thanks for the helpful advice, Steven and Ron. I just love the way experienced and busy practioners are willing to dish out (free) pearls of wisdom to us
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 4, 2006
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                Thanks for the helpful advice, Steven and Ron. I just love the way
                experienced and busy practioners are willing to dish out (free) pearls
                of wisdom to us newbies!

                Yes, we still have a systems analyst on the team and she is busy
                "helping" the PO to write user stories. She also writes use cases as we
                are continuing to follow the RUP "software engineering" practices. We
                also have a test analyst who defines the tests. There is a realisation
                that these highly defined and separated roles will blur as the team
                self-organises. It's early days and we're changing those things now that
                are important to avoid Scrum "smells".

                Peter

                --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Hello Steven, thanks for your ideas. On Tuesday, October 3, 2006, at
                > 10:52:36 AM, you wrote:
                >
                > > What are the business analysts going to do now that Scrum is being
                > > implemented?
                >
                > > If they are not being let go, perhaps one of them could work with
                each
                > > PO. An experienced analyst could not only help the PO write better
                > > user stories, but also outline the acceptance criteria or even write
                > > the acceptance tests.
                >
                > > Just because it is the PO's responsibility does not mean they have
                to
                > > do the work by themselves.
                >
                > Just so. I like teams to think of the Analysts, //and the testers//
                > as staff to the PO.
                >
                > Ron Jeffries
                > www.XProgramming.com
                > Bang, bang, Jeffries' silver hammer came down upon their heads ...
                >
              • Ron Jeffries
                Hello ianralls01, thanks for the thoughts quoted here. On Wednesday, ... Worth noting, perhaps, that while this would probably sell, and people would probably
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 4, 2006
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                  Hello ianralls01, thanks for the thoughts quoted here. On Wednesday,
                  October 4, 2006, at 5:55:19 AM, you wrote:

                  > This would be absolutely great for us... we struggle with conveying
                  > the concept to the various people in the business that would benefit
                  > from reading the books, but don't. A more (dare I say
                  > it..) "lightweight" version for
                  > them would be greatly appreciated!

                  Worth noting, perhaps, that while this would probably sell, and
                  people would probably read it, it won't suddenly bring all these
                  people up to speed.

                  Sitting down with people and talking to them might. People in Agile
                  projects could do that themselves, or they could bring in highly
                  paid effective consultants to do that for them ...

                  Ron Jeffries
                  www.XProgramming.com
                  To be on the wire is life. The rest is waiting. --Karl Wallenda
                • Mike Cohn
                  No, handing someone a 20-30 page PDF won t fully get someone up to speed. However, what I ve found useful is talking to product owners _and_ in many cases
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 4, 2006
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                    No, handing someone a 20-30 page PDF won't fully get someone up to speed. However, what I've found useful is talking to product owners _and_ in many cases leaving them with something very short and very non-intimidating to read. Not everyone would need to read it and not everyone would. Different people learn in different ways and most of us learn by using multiple modes before the points sink in.
                    Regards,
                    Mike Cohn
                    Author:
                      Agile Estimating and Planning
                      User Stories Applied
                    www.mountaingoatsoftware.com


                    On Oct 4, 2006, at 4:51 AM, Ron Jeffries wrote:

                    Hello ianralls01, thanks for the thoughts quoted here. On Wednesday,
                    October 4, 2006, at 5:55:19 AM, you wrote:

                    > This would be absolutely great for us... we struggle with conveying
                    > the concept to the various people in the business that would benefit
                    > from reading the books, but don't. A more (dare I say
                    > it..) "lightweight" version for
                    > them would be greatly appreciated!

                    Worth noting, perhaps, that while this would probably sell, and
                    people would probably read it, it won't suddenly bring all these
                    people up to speed.

                    Sitting down with people and talking to them might. People in Agile
                    projects could do that themselves, or they could bring in highly
                    paid effective consultants to do that for them ...

                    Ron Jeffries
                    www.XProgramming.com
                    To be on the wire is life. The rest is waiting. --Karl Wallenda


                  • Ron Jeffries
                    Hello Mike, thank you for the email quoted here. On Wednesday, ... Oh, I agree. After all, I publish my every thought. Except for your books, not much has been
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 4, 2006
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                      Hello Mike, thank you for the email quoted here. On Wednesday,
                      October 4, 2006, at 8:53:25 AM, you wrote:

                      > No, handing someone a 20-30 page PDF won't fully get someone up to
                      > speed. However, what I've found useful is talking to product owners
                      > _and_ in many cases leaving them with something very short and very
                      > non-intimidating to read. Not everyone would need to read it and not
                      > everyone would. Different people learn in different ways and most of
                      > us learn by using multiple modes before the points sink in.

                      Oh, I agree. After all, I publish my every thought. Except for your
                      books, not much has been done with them. ;->

                      Ron Jeffries
                      www.XProgramming.com
                      Wisdom begins when we discover the difference between
                      "That makes no sense" and "I don't understand". --Mary Doria Russell
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