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Re: [XP] Agile 2.0

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  • Ron Jeffries
    Hello, Marco, ... It s certainly not a joke, and I see the results as generally very favorable toward Agile, especially XP and Scrum. ... Well, there was
    Message 1 of 57 , Jul 29 5:35 PM
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      Hello, Marco,

      On Saturday, July 29, 2006, at 6:45:04 AM, you wrote:

      > [rant]
      > Please tell me it's a joke. Scott W. Ambler has published some very
      > interesting data related to a surveys done via Dr. Dobb's Journal.
      > Questions, raw data and summary can be found at
      > http://www.ambysoft.com/surveys/

      It's certainly not a joke, and I see the results as generally very
      favorable toward Agile, especially XP and Scrum.

      > In the last slide of the summary presentation (ppt) I read: "There was a
      > statistical correlation between adoption of "Agile 2.0" methods such as
      > Agile Unified Process (AUP) or MSF Agile and adoption of Agile Model
      > Driven Development (AMDD)"

      Well, there was apparently a correlation. About 5 percent of
      respondents reported using those, um, approaches. How many were used
      together isn't clear from what we seen in the data now.

      > Please please please can we try to avoid such a thing as Agile 2.0? And
      > who says that AUP and MSF Agile are Agile 2.0? what do we/you/they mean by
      > Agile 2.0? I still am not sure AUP and MSF Agile are "Agile 1.0"...
      > [/rant]

      Yes. Scott has been pushing his approach hard, in every conceivable
      forum. It has achieved some penetration. I would be very interested
      to see the correlation between the various methods and the levels of
      satisfaction, quality, and so on. Perhaps the upcoming article[s]
      will address that.

      The notion of "Agile 2.0" is, in my opinion, odious in the
      "extreme". There are a lot of people out there pushing Agile, there
      are lots of training courses, lots of consultants, lots of new
      entrants into the market, many of whom cannot trace their
      participation to anyone in the original Agile lineage. That troubles
      me a bit.

      I continue to see individuals and organizations saying that they're
      Agile without even getting close to what "Agile 1.0" suggests.
      Adding more modeling, and adding more process elements, will not
      improve this situation. People ought to learn to do Agile 1.0 before
      worrying much about what's next. There's plenty there to learn.

      It's all part of "crossing the chasm", I reckon. Everything gets
      watered down.

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people
      always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can
      become great." -- Mark Twain.
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hello Eb, Thank you for your email. On Wednesday, August 9, 2006, at 5:06:12 ... Well, my point really is that I think courses don t make anyone Agile. All
      Message 57 of 57 , Aug 9, 2006
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        Hello Eb,

        Thank you for your email. On Wednesday, August 9, 2006, at 5:06:12
        PM, you wrote:

        > Courses may not be for you - after all you give 'em, and I guess
        > you've given so many maybe it feels like they don't have the impact
        > you once hoped they would? Though I'd wager that they are helpful for
        > those of us in need of some guidance. I did a CSM last October and it
        > was the beginning of really exciting journey for me, so far it's led
        > me here (amongst other places)...

        Well, my point really is that I think courses don't make anyone
        Agile. All they do -- and this certainly has value -- is offer ideas
        which people might try. As you say ... the course is the beginning
        of a journey. But it's the journey that matters.

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future. -- Niels Bohr
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