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Re: In search of "The Scrum Hour"

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  • ffej12342003
    I would add that the best way to sell this to management is to show the superior ROI and/or visibility to potential ROI that Scrum provides. Management likes
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 11, 2003
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      I would add that the best way to sell this to management is to show
      the superior ROI and/or visibility to potential ROI that Scrum
      provides. Management likes predictability, but in the absence of
      that, knowing that there is a process in place to maximize ROI and to
      provide frequent (every 30 days) potentially shippable product is a
      very compelling story. One could even argue that Scrum provides a
      level of predictability in that every 30 days there will be a
      potentially shippable increment of code. Much like our exercise with
      the commissioner, we need to put this in terms that management can
      relate to and feels is important.

      Jeff.
      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" <deborah@h...> wrote:
      > In Toronto, we're looking for ways to sell Scrum to Management. I'm
      > thinking we need a tool in our arsenal, something like "the extreme
      > hour" - a short immersion exercise that allows people to experience
      > some of the flow and synergy of collaborative, agile work using
      Scrum.
      >
      > Has anyone done something like this? Maybe a 1-3 hour exercise? I'm
      > thinking of something like the simulations we did with Ken in the
      > ScrumMaster Certification course.
      >
      > Would love to hear about past (or planned) experiences.
      > :-)
      >
      > deb
    • Bryan Zarnett
      In some circumstances though ROI is not understood or considered by management. In other circumstances, the term has different meaning to different people
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 11, 2003
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        In some circumstances though ROI is not understood or considered by management. In other circumstances, the term has different meaning to different people based on their experiences or level in the corporate ladder. Part of the "sell" is to make sure that everyone is on the same playing field concerning what ROI and what are its aspects. Return on Expectations is also something that needs to be explored.

        The 30 day shipment is only good if we can relate it back in terms of their specific viewpoint on investment and expectation. Using our canned response is not always the most effective point of origin. (as you mention at the end of your message)

        On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 09:56AM, ffej12342003 <jeff.pink@...> wrote:

        I would add that the best way to sell this to management is to show
        the superior ROI and/or visibility to potential ROI that Scrum
        provides. .
      • Ken Schwaber
        Which management are you trying to sell this to. Business management, or systems management. Different sales approaches. Ken ... From: ffej12342003
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 11, 2003
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          Which management are you trying to sell this to. Business management, or
          systems management. Different sales approaches.
          Ken

          -----Original Message-----
          From: ffej12342003 [mailto:jeff.pink@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:56 AM
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: In search of "The Scrum Hour"


          I would add that the best way to sell this to management is to show
          the superior ROI and/or visibility to potential ROI that Scrum
          provides. Management likes predictability, but in the absence of
          that, knowing that there is a process in place to maximize ROI and to
          provide frequent (every 30 days) potentially shippable product is a
          very compelling story. One could even argue that Scrum provides a
          level of predictability in that every 30 days there will be a
          potentially shippable increment of code. Much like our exercise with
          the commissioner, we need to put this in terms that management can
          relate to and feels is important.

          Jeff.
          --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" <deborah@h...> wrote:
          > In Toronto, we're looking for ways to sell Scrum to Management. I'm
          > thinking we need a tool in our arsenal, something like "the extreme
          > hour" - a short immersion exercise that allows people to experience
          > some of the flow and synergy of collaborative, agile work using
          Scrum.
          >
          > Has anyone done something like this? Maybe a 1-3 hour exercise? I'm
          > thinking of something like the simulations we did with Ken in the
          > ScrumMaster Certification course.
          >
          > Would love to hear about past (or planned) experiences.
          > :-)
          >
          > deb



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        • Deb
          ... management, or ... Yes, absolutely agreed. Actually, we are still addressing the question of who is the Customer when we sell Scrum - hope to have a
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 11, 2003
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            --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Schwaber"
            <ken.schwaber@v...> wrote:
            > Which management are you trying to sell this to. Business
            management, or
            > systems management. Different sales approaches.
            > Ken

            Yes, absolutely agreed. Actually, we are still addressing the
            question of "who is the Customer" when we "sell Scrum" - hope to have
            a discussion soon on that.

            For now, let's say IT Management - the senior person who'll have to
            champion the methodologies in use and who'd need to be comfortable
            with how Scrum handles resource planning, reporting and deliveries.
          • Mike Beedle
            ... Schwaber ... Business management, or ... Yes, absolutely agreed. Actually, we are still addressing the question of who is the Customer when we sell
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 11, 2003
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              --- Deb <deborah@...> wrote:
              ---------------------------------
              --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Ken
              Schwaber"
              <ken.schwaber@v...> wrote:
              > Which management are you trying to sell this to.
              Business
              management, or
              > systems management. Different sales approaches.
              > Ken

              Yes, absolutely agreed. Actually, we are still
              addressing the
              question of "who is the Customer" when we "sell Scrum"
              - hope to have
              a discussion soon on that.


              Deb:

              My only advice is:

              whenever possible, sell Scrum, or anything
              else for that matter, to _business management_.

              Business managers, are always the people that write
              and sign the checks and they still understand "A > B"

              and "these are referenceable facts and/or accounts".

              IT management, in general has problems believing
              that things work as advertised, specially when
              dealing with "methodologies" -- even when presented
              with lots of empirical evidence, including references.
              Also, IT management tends to think in terms of
              "funny money", and then almost always have to sell
              their ideas to a business sponsor anyhow.

              Just my 2 cents,

              - Mike
            • Deb
              ... Good point. I ll include that in our discussion of who is the customer . Thanks! deb
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 12, 2003
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                --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Mike Beedle <beedlem@e...>
                wrote:
                > Deb:
                >
                > My only advice is:
                >
                > whenever possible, sell Scrum, or anything
                > else for that matter, to _business management_.
                >
                > Business managers, are always the people that write
                > and sign the checks and they still understand "A > B"
                >
                > and "these are referenceable facts and/or accounts".
                >
                > IT management, in general has problems believing
                > that things work as advertised, specially when
                > dealing with "methodologies" -- even when presented
                > with lots of empirical evidence, including references.
                > Also, IT management tends to think in terms of
                > "funny money", and then almost always have to sell
                > their ideas to a business sponsor anyhow.
                >
                > Just my 2 cents,
                >
                > - Mike

                Good point. I'll include that in our discussion of "who is the
                customer". Thanks!
                deb
              • David J. Anderson
                Deb, [With apologies to Ken and Mike for using their group for self-promotion...] I agree with Jeff. Senior management in large companies are persuaded only by
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 12, 2003
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                  Deb,

                  [With apologies to Ken and Mike for using their group
                  for self-promotion...]

                  I agree with Jeff. Senior management in large
                  companies are persuaded only by ROI.

                  My forthcoming book "Agile Management for Software
                  Engineering" on Prentice Hall PTR shows you how to
                  demonstrate the ROI to senior management in big
                  corporations for Scrum (as well as XP and FDD). The
                  book will be published in September. I also have a
                  Yahoo! Group "agile management". I'd be happy to talk
                  more about it over there.

                  Cheers,

                  David



                  --- ffej12342003 <jeff.pink@...> wrote:

                  I would add that the best way to sell this to
                  management is to show
                  the superior ROI and/or visibility to potential ROI
                  that Scrum
                  provides. Management likes predictability, but in the
                  absence of
                  that, knowing that there is a process in place to
                  maximize ROI and to
                  provide frequent (every 30 days) potentially shippable
                  product is a
                  very compelling story. One could even argue that Scrum
                  provides a
                  level of predictability in that every 30 days there
                  will be a
                  potentially shippable increment of code. Much like our
                  exercise with
                  the commissioner, we need to put this in terms that
                  management can
                  relate to and feels is important.

                  Jeff.
                  --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Deb"
                  <deborah@h...> wrote:
                  > In Toronto, we're looking for ways to sell Scrum to
                  Management. I'm
                  > thinking we need a tool in our arsenal, something
                  like "the extreme
                  > hour" - a short immersion exercise that allows
                  people to experience
                  > some of the flow and synergy of collaborative, agile
                  work using
                  Scrum.
                  >
                  > Has anyone done something like this? Maybe a 1-3
                  hour exercise? I'm
                  > thinking of something like the simulations we did
                  with Ken in the
                  > ScrumMaster Certification course.
                  >
                  > Would love to hear about past (or planned)
                  experiences.
                  > :-)
                  >
                  > deb




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                • Harry Forsdick
                  I am investigating disciplines for level of effort estimation in software development. I am interested in hearing about approaches / systems that people find
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 14, 2003
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                    I am investigating disciplines for level of effort estimation in software development.  I am interested in hearing about approaches / systems that people find effective.  I will summarize the responses I get to the list.
                     
                    Thanks,
                     
                         Harry
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