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Contracts for external teams?

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  • clintonnkeith
    Over the last few years we ve adopted Scrum for internally developed projects. Now our parent corp. would like to explore signing up external developers that
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 4, 2006
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      Over the last few years we've adopted Scrum for internally developed
      projects. Now our parent corp. would like to explore signing up
      external developers that use Scrum for projects.

      The legal department is looking for some standard by which an external
      team can be judged (e.g. velocity) as a way to determine a breach
      based on failure to deliver versus a breach for convenience.

      What approach has anyone used for contracts as external developers
      (using Scrum) that has worked all around?

      Thanks!
      Clint
    • Leandro Saad
      Hi. I lead a remote team in Brazil using scrum and our contract says that we are contracted for each sprint. If we don t deliver the expected functionally the
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 4, 2006
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        Hi. I lead a remote team in Brazil using scrum and our contract says that we are contracted for each sprint. If we don't deliver the expected functionally the each sprint, the client may decide to end the contract.

        On 4/4/06, clintonnkeith <ckeith@...> wrote:
        Over the last few years we've adopted Scrum for internally developed
        projects.  Now our parent corp. would like to explore signing up
        external developers that use Scrum for projects.

        The legal department is looking for some standard by which an external
        team can be judged (e.g. velocity) as a way to determine a breach
        based on failure to deliver versus a breach for convenience. 

        What approach has anyone used for contracts as external developers
        (using Scrum) that has worked all around?

        Thanks!
        Clint






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        --
        Leandro Rodrigo Saad Cruz
        CTO - InterBusiness Technologies
        db.apache.org/ojb
        guara-framework.sf.net
        xingu.sf.net
      • Clinton Keith
        How long are your Sprints? We re thinking of the same thing, but for releases, which give us more time to evaluate progress on a saner schedule. Since
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 4, 2006
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          How long are your Sprints?  We’re thinking of the same thing, but for releases, which give us more time to evaluate progress on a saner schedule.   Since releases allow more change to scope, budget and backlog I’d curious about how that would be handled.


          Thanks!
          Clint

           

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leandro Saad
          Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 10:46 AM
          To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Contracts for external teams?

           

          Hi. I lead a remote team in Brazil using scrum and our contract says that we are contracted for each sprint. If we don't deliver the expected functionally the each sprint, the client may decide to end the contract.

          On 4/4/06, clintonnkeith <ckeith@...> wrote:

          Over the last few years we've adopted Scrum for internally developed
          projects.  Now our parent corp. would like to explore signing up
          external developers that use Scrum for projects.

          The legal department is looking for some standard by which an external
          team can be judged (e.g. velocity) as a way to determine a breach
          based on failure to deliver versus a breach for convenience. 

          What approach has anyone used for contracts as external developers
          (using Scrum) that has worked all around?

          Thanks!
          Clint






          To Post a message, send it to:   scrumdevelopment@...
          To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...


          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

           

           





          --
          Leandro Rodrigo Saad Cruz
          CTO - InterBusiness Technologies
          db.apache.org/ojb
          guara-framework.sf.net
          xingu.sf.net

        • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
          First, SLA s in a collaborative environment are like screen doors on submarines. You gotta be careful when you use them and know where you are. Second send
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 4, 2006
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            First, SLA's in a collaborative environment are like screen doors on submarines.  You gotta be careful when you use them and know where you are.
             
            Second send the Legal department a copy of the Agile Manifesto.
             
            Third offer to set up a scrum with them so that you can get a daily update as to the legal work they are doing.  NOT ! ! ! !
             
            Seriously   The contract has to be a bi directional mutual statement committing to work in a collaborative manner to provide the customer what they have defined as a DONE product.
             
            --
            Perseverance is not a long race; it is many short races one after another. ~Walter Elliott, The Spiritual Life


            The greatest oak was once a little nut who held its ground. ~Author Unknown
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            From: "clintonnkeith" <ckeith@...>

            > Over the last few years we've adopted Scrum for internally developed
            > projects. Now our parent corp. would like to explore signing up
            > external developers that use Scrum for projects.
            >
            > The legal department is looking for some standard by which an external
            > team can be judged (e.g. velocity) as a way to determine a breach
            > based on failure to deliver versus a breach for convenience.
            >
            > What approach has anyone used for contracts as external developers
            > (using Scrum) that has worked all around?
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Clint
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/
            >
            > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Ken Schwaber
            Hire them on a time and material basis and direct their activities as the product owner. ROI is good or they are gone, Ken _____ From:
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 4, 2006
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              Hire them on a time and material basis and direct their activities as the product owner. ROI is good or they are gone,

              Ken

               


              From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of clintonnkeith
              Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 1:00 PM
              To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Contracts for external teams?

               

              Over the last few years we've adopted Scrum for internally developed
              projects.  Now our parent corp. would like to explore signing up
              external developers that use Scrum for projects.

              The legal department is looking for some standard by which an external
              team can be judged (e.g. velocity) as a way to determine a breach
              based on failure to deliver versus a breach for convenience. 

              What approach has anyone used for contracts as external developers
              (using Scrum) that has worked all around?

              Thanks!
              Clint





            • Leandro Saad
              ... 3 weeks ... We release after every Sprint. Sometimes that fails because the Product Owner says so. My biggest problem is hiring people to work on this
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 4, 2006
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                On 4/4/06, Clinton Keith <ckeith@...> wrote:

                How long are your Sprints? 

                3 weeks

                We're thinking of the same thing, but for releases, which give us more time to evaluate progress on a saner schedule.   Since releases allow more change to scope, budget and backlog I'd curious about how that would be handled.


                We release after every Sprint. Sometimes that fails because the Product Owner says so.
                My biggest problem is hiring people to work on this basis. I think the (my) client needs to get comfortable with scrum till he commits more funds to the project.
                 

                Thanks!
                Clint

                 

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leandro Saad
                Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 10:46 AM
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Contracts for external teams?

                 

                Hi. I lead a remote team in Brazil using scrum and our contract says that we are contracted for each sprint. If we don't deliver the expected functionally the each sprint, the client may decide to end the contract.

                On 4/4/06, clintonnkeith < ckeith@...> wrote:

                Over the last few years we've adopted Scrum for internally developed
                projects.  Now our parent corp. would like to explore signing up
                external developers that use Scrum for projects.

                The legal department is looking for some standard by which an external
                team can be judged (e.g. velocity) as a way to determine a breach
                based on failure to deliver versus a breach for convenience. 

                What approach has anyone used for contracts as external developers
                (using Scrum) that has worked all around?

                Thanks!
                Clint


              • Ron Jeffries
                ... Scrum teams deliver running tested software, approximating what they committed to, month in and month out. If your contractor does that, you should be
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 4, 2006
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                  On Tuesday, April 4, 2006, at 9:59:34 AM, clintonnkeith wrote:

                  > Over the last few years we've adopted Scrum for internally developed
                  > projects. Now our parent corp. would like to explore signing up
                  > external developers that use Scrum for projects.

                  > The legal department is looking for some standard by which an external
                  > team can be judged (e.g. velocity) as a way to determine a breach
                  > based on failure to deliver versus a breach for convenience.

                  > What approach has anyone used for contracts as external developers
                  > (using Scrum) that has worked all around?

                  Scrum teams deliver running tested software, approximating what they
                  committed to, month in and month out. If your contractor does that,
                  you should be happy. If they do not, you should not.

                  What else are you looking for?

                  Ron Jeffries
                  www.XProgramming.com
                  Fatalism is born of the fear of failure, for we all believe that we carry
                  success in our own hands, and we suspect that our hands are weak. -- Conrad
                • Clinton Keith
                  ... From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Ron Jeffries ... The legal department is looking for some standard by which an external team can be
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 4, 2006
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                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Ron Jeffries

                    On Tuesday, April 4, 2006, at 9:59:34 AM, clintonnkeith wrote:

                    > > Over the last few years we've adopted Scrum for internally developed
                    > > projects. Now our parent corp. would like to explore signing up
                    > > external developers that use Scrum for projects.

                    > > The legal department is looking for some standard by which an external
                    > > team can be judged (e.g. velocity) as a way to determine a breach
                    > > based on failure to deliver versus a breach for convenience.

                    > > What approach has anyone used for contracts as external developers
                    > > (using Scrum) that has worked all around?

                    > Scrum teams deliver running tested software, approximating what they
                    > committed to, month in and month out. If your contractor does that,
                    > you should be happy. If they do not, you should not.

                    > What else are you looking for?

                    Actually they are not "my" contractor. What was being sought was written in the original email:
                    ----
                    "The legal department is looking for some standard by which an external
                    team can be judged (e.g. velocity) as a way to determine a breach
                    based on failure to deliver versus a breach for convenience.

                    What approach has anyone used for contracts as external developers
                    (using Scrum) that has worked all around?"
                    ----

                    I'm well versed in the theory of what "should" happen.

                    I looked around for more specific info and found that Mary Poppendieck had some very useful and applicable docs and advice on her site.

                    Clint
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