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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum Ownership

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  • Robert Hathaway (DHL CZ)
    So we now have A, B, and C variants of Scrum to cover different situations...when do we stop coming up with new variants to cover a new situation. It seems
    Message 1 of 99 , Apr 3, 2006
      So we now have A, B, and C variants of Scrum to cover different situations...when do we stop coming up with new variants to cover a new situation. It seems that this talk of variants has confused quite a few people and to me there is a danger of the core Scrum principles and practices being lost.
       
      Should Ken have ownership over the Scrum and the core principles and practices- absolutely... but, you're still expected to take his core principles and use them appropriately within your environment/organisation and that's the bit you own. However the discussions we have here are giving real world feedback and suggestions that can be used to help continually improving the core set of principles and practices.
       
      Trying to have lots of different variants to cover different environments (etc) is moving away from the core principles of Scrum and thought process of making them work for you...I worry that with the different variants (some) people will start to think that the thinking has already been done for them and they can simply use variant X as is without really thinking about it.
       
      I'd like to see if we can't look at the variants being proposed and see if there aren't a few principles that can't be generated that could be added into the list of core Scrum principles and practices?


      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike.dwyer1@...
      Sent: 03 April 2006 05:53
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum Ownership

      Is that the issue Ron - bigger, smaller, right, different, wrong?
       
      I come back to the fact that once we implement scrum it ends up being the team's and then the organization.  Like you said you've never seen an xP or a scrum that was the whole encheliada.  Maybe that is the answer for you it isn't for them it is.  OK so what, well that means that the ideal doesn't exist and no matter how we try to 'save' Agile from the Aliens it ends up the people's ability to use it, accept it and most of all approve it. 
       
       
      --
      Perseverance is not a long race; it is many short races one after another. ~Walter Elliott, The Spiritual Life


      The greatest oak was once a little nut who held its ground. ~Author Unknown
       
      -------------- Original message --------------
      From: Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>

      > On Sunday, April 2, 2006, at 8:08:04 PM, Deb wrote:
      >
      > > What's good for our clients ought to be good for us... I agree, Mike.
      >
      > That would be a scrum gathering worth attending. but i wonder ...
      >
      > ... could the difficult topics be addressed productively;
      > ... how could the large group be accommodated;
      > ... is it time yet to move beyond these brand names to the bigger
      > picture?
      >
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > The work teaches us. -- Richard Gabriel
      >
      >
      >
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    • mike.dwyer1@comcast.net
      Dave: WOW What a huge difference from your posts a year ago. You really need to tell us more about how you got to the point the customer capacity to absorb
      Message 99 of 99 , Apr 4, 2006
        Dave:
        WOW  What a huge difference from your posts a year ago.  You really need to tell us more about how you got to the point the customer capacity to absorb DONE was saturated.
         
        Congratulations. 
         
        --
        Perseverance is not a long race; it is many short races one after another. ~Walter Elliott, The Spiritual Life


        The greatest oak was once a little nut who held its ground. ~Author Unknown
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        From: David A Barrett <dave.barrett@...>

        > >I think someone else said that Scrum is a path, not a destination. I
        > >agree with that.
        >
        > I agree too. With regards to "cookie-cutter" solutions, I highly doubt
        > that there are going to be any to be found for anyone.
        >
        > Personally, I think that one of the key strengths of Scrum is that it is so
        > simple it is easy to make the adaptations that will make if a good fit for
        > a particular situation. I think that above all we need to hold on to that
        > simplicity, and continue to regard our adaptations as simply that;
        > adaptations and not improvements or evolements.
        >
        > I've noticed that some of the people on the list have concentrated on
        > squeezing every last ounce of productivity out of a development team.
        > They've made adaptations that seek to reduce the downtime between Sprints,
        > and to strip out all extraneous distractions from the developers and to
        > deliver as much new functionality as quickly as possible. I'm sure this
        > makes sense within their situations, and I'm sure it seems natural to them
        > to assume that these same goals would be universal. From there, I have no
        > doubt it becomes easy for them to view their adaptations as the natural
        > "evolution" of Scrum.
        >
        > Personally, I wonder what such a pace does to the developers over the long
        > haul. Where's the line between an exhilarating, rewarding and successful
        > environment and a sweat shop?
        >
        > As a contrast, I noticed that Scrum is really good at choking off
        > development when required. A lot of customers aren't able to cope with a
        > virtual firehose of new functionality aimed a them. Around here, we're at
        > one of those points with one of our projects. We've almost completed an
        > early stage of development, and the customer is going to need some time to
        > experiment with the software, find out what works and what doesn't, plan
        > training for their staff, train their staff, implement the new software and
        > evaluate how it's going to change their world. I should add that this new
        > software represents a potentially enormous change to them, and the way that
        > they do their jobs.
        >
        > In the meantime, they might want a couple of tweaks to what we've done, but
        > they can't tell us what the next step should be. We, the developers, can't
        > tell either and any work that we might do before we find out stands a very
        > good chance of being useless, unwanted or just plain wrong. Scrum handles
        > this. Nothing on the PB for this project bubbles up to a high enough
        > priority to make a Sprint Backlog. While we wait, we point the
        > functionality firehose at another customer.
        >
        > My point on that is that we're all looking for something different.
        > Vanilla, out of the box Scrum provides a good starting place to achieve a
        > large range of different goals. Maybe Scrum needs someone like Ken to
        > remind us when we're getting caught up in our own situations and losing
        > track of larger world of software development.
        >
        > Dave Barrett,
        > Lawyers' Professional Indemnity Company
        >
        >
        >
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