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RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and XP...

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  • John Brothers
    Indeed. We use Scrum, and the following XP practices along with it: 1) User Stories 2) Test-Driven Development 3) Continuous Integration 4) Heavy access to
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 1, 2006
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      Indeed.  We use Scrum, and the following XP practices along with it:
       
      1) User Stories
      2) Test-Driven Development
      3) Continuous Integration
      4) Heavy access to customer proxy
      5) Optimize later instead of earlier
      6) Refactor as necessary
       
      So far I've been quite pleased with the results.
       
      John


      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Jeffries
      Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:19 PM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and XP...

      On Tuesday, February 28, 2006, at 7:07:31 PM, Jeff wrote:

      > Do scrum teams end up migrating to XP?

      Many do. Much of what I've been doing lately is introducing XP
      practices to Scrum teams.

      The thing is that for Scrum to work, the team has to come up somehow
      with technical practices that let them produce software that is
      known to work by the end of each Sprint. XP offers core practices
      that are a good start at doing this.

      Some time ago, if I'm not mistaken, Mike Beedle talked about a blend
      of XP and Scrum that he called XP@Scrum. More recently he has taken
      the position that practices much like the XP practices have always
      been a part of Scrum. That may be the case, though they aren't
      mentioned in the Scrum books, as far as I know.

      But primacy of invention or whose name is on the book isn't what's
      important. What's important is that a Scrum team needs to come up
      with some coherent and effective set of technical practices, in
      order to do their jobs effectively. The XP literature offers one
      convenient package of practices that are a good start.

      Regards,

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      One test is worth a thousand expert opinions.
        -- Bill Nye (The Science Guy)

    • Culpepper Rick
      Hello, everyone! I am a new member of this forum and am just learning about Scrum and XP. I have recently joined this organization, taking over a project that
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 1, 2006
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        Hello, everyone!

        I am a new member of this forum and am just learning about Scrum and XP.
        I have recently joined this organization, taking over a project that was
        badly off-track.

        I am interested in using both Scrum and XP to revamp our development
        process for a mission-critical internal application. I have one team
        member who has some experience with Scrum and XP who introduced me to
        Scrum. I was already somewhat familiar with XP, but had never used it on
        any projects.

        I need some help getting started and wonder what approaches others have
        used to bootstrap Scrum and/or XP in their organizations. I'm open to
        training or consulting or whatever other means people have used to
        successfully transition to Scrum/XP in other organizations.

        Any help and/or advice that anyone can offer is very welcome.

        Thanks!

        Rick Culpepper
        Rick.Culpepper@...
      • Ron Jeffries
        ... I would suggest ScrumMaster training for yourself and perhaps other key people in the organization, and would suggest that you bring in a competent coach
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 1, 2006
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          On Wednesday, March 1, 2006, at 7:03:39 AM, Culpepper Rick wrote:

          > I need some help getting started and wonder what approaches others have
          > used to bootstrap Scrum and/or XP in their organizations. I'm open to
          > training or consulting or whatever other means people have used to
          > successfully transition to Scrum/XP in other organizations.

          I would suggest ScrumMaster training for yourself and perhaps other
          key people in the organization, and would suggest that you bring in
          a competent coach in Agile Software Development. This individual
          would introduce all the stakeholders to Agile, and would be able to
          assess your existing situation from an Agile viewpoint and suggest
          first and continuing steps toward improvement.

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          Comments lie. Code doesn't.
        • Stephen J. Bobick
          ... Scrum and XP best-practices are complementary, not mutually exclusive. I prefer to use Scrum and incorporate best practices like TDD, continuous
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 1, 2006
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            On Tuesday, February 28, 2006, at 7:07:31 PM, Jeff wrote:
            >
            >> Do scrum teams end up migrating to XP?

            Scrum and XP best-practices are complementary, not mutually exclusive.

            I prefer to use Scrum and incorporate best practices like TDD, continuous integration, and pair programming. Scrum provides an excellent structure for planning, executing, and reviewing iterations. Without this structure, or an analogous replacement, XP best-practices in isolation becomes chaotic at worst, and lose focus of the bigger picture at best.

            -- Stephen
          • Clinton Keith
            Also keep in mind that many Scrum teams are not exclusively composed of programmers. Our Scrum teams average about 50/50. The programmers pair and do TDD,
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 1, 2006
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              Also keep in mind that many Scrum teams are not exclusively composed of
              programmers. Our Scrum teams average about 50/50. The programmers pair
              and do TDD, but planning and tasks breakdown follow Scrum practices.

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
              > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:08 PM
              > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and XP...
              >
              >
              > Another scrum question...
              >
              > The more I "do scrum" the more I suspect XP is more appropriate for
              > applying
              > scrum-like methodology to developing software.
              >
              > After all, scrum (afaict) embodies a lot of XP's "project methodology"
              > aspects, though scrum does not address any coding/programming aspects.
              >
              > I'm starting to find that effective scrum requires programming models
              such
              > as TDD. XP already has this all sorted out.
              >
              > Do scrum teams end up migrating to XP?
              >
              > Jeff
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
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            • Schiel, James (MED US)
              Ditto...this is exactly the structure that we ve set up in my company. Jim Schiel________________________________From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 7, 2006
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                Ditto...this is exactly the structure that we've set up in my company.
                 
                Jim Schiel


                From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen J. Bobick
                Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 1:58 PM
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and XP...

                On Tuesday, February 28, 2006, at 7:07:31 PM, Jeff wrote:
                >
                >> Do scrum teams end up migrating to XP?

                Scrum and XP best-practices are complementary, not mutually exclusive.

                I prefer to use Scrum and incorporate best practices like TDD, continuous integration, and pair programming.  Scrum provides an excellent structure for planning, executing, and reviewing iterations.  Without this structure, or an analogous replacement, XP best-practices in isolation becomes chaotic at worst, and lose focus of the bigger picture at best.

                -- Stephen

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