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Re: [scrumdevelopment] Deep Trust

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  • Joseph Pelrine
    Hi Michael, ... It s worth a lot! I know exactly the feeling you describe. The psychologist I often work with (Ben Fuchs) also studied with Mindell, so it s
    Message 1 of 35 , Jan 3, 2006
      Hi Michael,
      At 16:14 03.01.2006, you wrote:
      >Tobias, thanks for introducing this thread. I think it has
      >everything to do with Scrum.
      >Joseph, thanks for adding some very interesting observations and
      >suggestions. I basically agree with you about trust being like a
      >bank account and developing over time. However, I have add a few
      >experiences where trust is immediate, even within a group of people
      >who don't know each other (this was not an Agile team). I have been
      >part of a group that developed an almost immediate (within an hour),
      >very deep level of intimacy and trust. This was mainly because of
      >how the facilitator/teacher (Max Schupbach) lead the session. He was
      >trained by Arnold Mindell in process work. As I understand his
      >method, it basically had to do with the level at which Max
      >acknowledged the reality that was going on in the room moment to
      >moment, both within his own consciousness and by "feeling into the
      >space." In a sense it was simply dealing with the truth, but it was
      >at a much deeper level than I have seen a ScrumMaster (including myself) work.
      >The group was not ongoing, so I can't say how it would develop over time.
      >For what it's worth......

      It's worth a lot! I know exactly the feeling you describe. The
      psychologist I often work with (Ben Fuchs) also studied with Mindell,
      so it's not a surprise that the ideas are similar. He's taught me
      many techniques that enable me to work at the much deeper level you
      describe, although I'll never be as good as he is.

      <shameless plug>As a matter of fact, Ben and I are currently working
      on, and will soon be offering a course on team-building, conflict
      resolution and social complexity for ScrumMasters.</shameless plug>


      Joseph Pelrine [ | ]
      MetaProg GmbH
      Email: jpelrine@...
      Web: http://www.metaprog.com

      You don't become enormously successful without encountering some
      really interesting problems.
      - Mark Victor Hansen
    • beckfordp
      Hi Ron, ... trust ... Just a ... fear ... Yes, the term judgement has a conitation that implies coming to a quick decision without obtaining all the facts. For
      Message 35 of 35 , Jan 6, 2006
        Hi Ron,

        I'm glad you found my post stimulating. See comments:

        --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
        <ronjeffries@X...> wrote:
        > On Friday, January 6, 2006, at 1:53:31 AM, Paul Beckford wrote:
        > > I mentioned two value thinking in my last post. The words fear and
        > > have been mentioned several times, there are alternatives. For example
        > > discernment, neither fear or trust or judgement for that matter.
        Just a
        > > calm acceptence of what is and what is known, without judgement or
        > > or unquestioning trust.
        > Very interesting point, Paul. I often recognize fear in team
        > situations, and have had the habit of referring to it by that term.
        > I generally try to replace fear with what Beck called "courage" in
        > the XP values, which I take to be a bit stronger than mere
        > acceptance, in that it is founded in readiness and preparation for
        > the situation.
        > Like you, I do not see trust as the necessary "replacement" for
        > fear, or even as a desirable one.
        > Judgment is a term that troubles some people, as they see judging as
        > somehow bad. I myself do not, seeing it more as an ongoing process
        > of observing and sorting out reality.
        Yes, the term judgement has a conitation that implies coming to a
        quick decision without obtaining all the facts. For example in the
        sentence "Don't judge me, after all you don't know me". In this sense
        then judgement can imply two value thinking, viewing the world in
        black and white and omitting the possibility of grey. I understand how
        you use the term judgement and I tend to agree. Using the term
        "discernment" can avoid the negative conitations associated with the
        word judgement.
        > Your use of the term "discernment" is interesting, and I would say
        > that by my understanding of the word, it feels right for the
        > replacement of either trust or fear with a better state.
        > Unfortunately (in my view) the term has become imbued with religious
        > connotations that trouble me a bit with respect to its potential use
        > in team situations.
        > My plan is to try to ignore those scents and experiment with using
        > the term. I think it better expresses some of my thinking than
        > whatever words I have been using in the past.

        Yes, those sents are cultural I believe. In the West any talk of
        spirituality or spiritual teaching is quickly related to Religion and
        Relgious dogma.

        I guess it's got to do with our Judo-Christian heritage. In some
        cultures spiritual ideas are not related to religion at all. For
        example I'm sure that native Americans would refer to these ideas as
        > So thanks!
        > > How do we get to this state? Well to be free of fear implies inner
        > Is inner peace the only way to be free of fear? I would think not.
        > It's a good way, though.

        Yes, I'm sure there are other ways. The ones I know about all tend to
        be related. For example it is difficult to achieve a sense of inner
        peace, without some degree of inner strength (or courage as you would
        describe it).

        I'm glad you found this useful. There are more gems of wisdom on the
        Brahma Kumaris website for those with an open mind.


        > Regards,
        > Ron Jeffries
        > www.XProgramming.com
        > Knowledge must come through action;
        > you can have no test which is not fanciful, save by trial. -- Sophocles
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