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829RE: R: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and RUP

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  • Raul Fernandez
    Jan 14, 2003
      Dear Marco:

      Of course there is a big difference between UML and RUP.
      When I talk about a UML diagrams I mean an RUP artifact made by a RUP
      activity. I think like Adriano and Allan (and also Krutchen and several
      Rational folks) that RUP not only could be customized but must be.
      Indeed I think Scrum practics are a clean way to do it by almost
      replacing the activities of Project Management discipline.
      About the Ken first message (I did not see before)
      1. I really dont know if XP is better or worst by the XP plug-in in RUP.
      2. Yes I think there is a way to represent the Scrum Plug-in with the
      Rational Procces Workbench.
      3. IMHO You can considre another point of view. Why a Scrum Plug-in in
      RUP?. Why not a RUP plug-in in Scrum, or a XP plug-in in Scrum, or
      protototypical development(Genexus) plug-in in Scrum, or OMT plug-in in
      Scrum. We are developping a client server aplication (we have called
      Scrum Pro) and we have the RUP activities as a repository for the
      backlogs. When we are talking about adaptive process, we are mainly
      talking about adaptive process management.

      Best wishes:


      -----Mensaje original-----
      De: Marco Abis [mailto:abis@...]
      Enviado el: martes, 14 de enero de 2003 4:39
      Para: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Asunto: RE: R: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and RUP

      Dear Raul,

      I think we need to remember what Ken wrote in the first mail of
      this thread:

      "Let us hypothesize that having a Scrum plug-in for RUP is an idea worth
      pursuing. Then I have the following questions: 1. How good was the
      effort at the XP plug-in. Does it help or hurt? Did the greater
      distribution cause the essence of XP to be more widely distributed, or
      did the translation of XP into RUP cause XP to lose it's "soul?" 2.
      Given the meta model of a process within Rose, that is used to generate
      RUP, how can an agile process be effectively described? The models of
      processes that we used in our process management software always
      revolved around hierarchies or tasks, with the lowest level tasks having
      estimates, roles, inputs, outputs, techniques and task descriptions.
      And, of course, each of the roles, techniques, inputs, and outputs were
      further described. Is this type of metaphor appropriate for agile
      processes, or does this level of delineation lead to them being fodder
      for M/S project,for "hands-off" management, and for robotic tracking of
      plans while ignoring realities? 3. If the first two questions are
      adequately addressed, what is our best way to proceed with the effort?"

      It seems to me you are identifing RUP and UML. RUP is the commercial
      implementation of the Unified Process by Rational (it's a product) while
      UML, you know, is 'just' a language used to represent (mainly) software

      Drawing an UML diagram doesn't mean using RUP (neither UP). Of course
      implementing RUP imply the use of UML.

      If you find a UML diagram useful to add some sort of value to your
      effort then use it! :-)

      But RUP is an iterative process articulated in a well defined SEQUENCE
      of activities.

      This is the point IMHO: RUP is a flow while agile approaches accept the
      non-linearity and unpredictability of the events. They are based on
      different principles and practices are instantiation of these

      Ken question was about the usefulness (or not) of a Scrum plug-in for
      RUP (the 'RUP product' is a web-site full of guidelines, templates, etc,
      etc you can customize).

      IMHO you can of course write a Scrum Plug-in for RUP and it will help
      those using it (as Adriano wrote: 'Scrum does not need RUP. RUP needs
      Scrum practices to be effective') but I think 'the translation of Scrum
      into RUP will cause Scrum to lose it's "soul?"'

      Best regards :-)

      > I think Scrum practices can replace the Project Management discipline
      > in RUP and at least in this sense can drive the other disciplines in
      > the right way, not only more effective, more light ( including in the
      > backlog sprint only the activities that adds value) but more agile
      > too. If we really think we must draw a UML diagram, because it really
      > adds value for this sprint or for documenting the system, we follow
      > this in the scrum meetings, making the team collaborative with
      > completing the artifact. I do not understand why we cannot say it is
      > more agile.
      > Raul Fernandez

      Marco Abis - CEO & Chairman
      Agility SPI: Software Process Improvement
      abis@... - abis@...

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