829RE: R: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and RUP
- Jan 14, 2003Dear Marco:
Of course there is a big difference between UML and RUP.
When I talk about a UML diagrams I mean an RUP artifact made by a RUP
activity. I think like Adriano and Allan (and also Krutchen and several
Rational folks) that RUP not only could be customized but must be.
Indeed I think Scrum practics are a clean way to do it by almost
replacing the activities of Project Management discipline.
About the Ken first message (I did not see before)
1. I really dont know if XP is better or worst by the XP plug-in in RUP.
2. Yes I think there is a way to represent the Scrum Plug-in with the
Rational Procces Workbench.
3. IMHO You can considre another point of view. Why a Scrum Plug-in in
RUP?. Why not a RUP plug-in in Scrum, or a XP plug-in in Scrum, or
protototypical development(Genexus) plug-in in Scrum, or OMT plug-in in
Scrum. We are developping a client server aplication (we have called
Scrum Pro) and we have the RUP activities as a repository for the
backlogs. When we are talking about adaptive process, we are mainly
talking about adaptive process management.
De: Marco Abis [mailto:abis@...]
Enviado el: martes, 14 de enero de 2003 4:39
Asunto: RE: R: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and RUP
I think we need to remember what Ken wrote in the first mail of
"Let us hypothesize that having a Scrum plug-in for RUP is an idea worth
pursuing. Then I have the following questions: 1. How good was the
effort at the XP plug-in. Does it help or hurt? Did the greater
distribution cause the essence of XP to be more widely distributed, or
did the translation of XP into RUP cause XP to lose it's "soul?" 2.
Given the meta model of a process within Rose, that is used to generate
RUP, how can an agile process be effectively described? The models of
processes that we used in our process management software always
revolved around hierarchies or tasks, with the lowest level tasks having
estimates, roles, inputs, outputs, techniques and task descriptions.
And, of course, each of the roles, techniques, inputs, and outputs were
further described. Is this type of metaphor appropriate for agile
processes, or does this level of delineation lead to them being fodder
for M/S project,for "hands-off" management, and for robotic tracking of
plans while ignoring realities? 3. If the first two questions are
adequately addressed, what is our best way to proceed with the effort?"
It seems to me you are identifing RUP and UML. RUP is the commercial
implementation of the Unified Process by Rational (it's a product) while
UML, you know, is 'just' a language used to represent (mainly) software
Drawing an UML diagram doesn't mean using RUP (neither UP). Of course
implementing RUP imply the use of UML.
If you find a UML diagram useful to add some sort of value to your
effort then use it! :-)
But RUP is an iterative process articulated in a well defined SEQUENCE
This is the point IMHO: RUP is a flow while agile approaches accept the
non-linearity and unpredictability of the events. They are based on
different principles and practices are instantiation of these
Ken question was about the usefulness (or not) of a Scrum plug-in for
RUP (the 'RUP product' is a web-site full of guidelines, templates, etc,
etc you can customize).
IMHO you can of course write a Scrum Plug-in for RUP and it will help
those using it (as Adriano wrote: 'Scrum does not need RUP. RUP needs
Scrum practices to be effective') but I think 'the translation of Scrum
into RUP will cause Scrum to lose it's "soul?"'
Best regards :-)
> I think Scrum practices can replace the Project Management disciplineMarco Abis - CEO & Chairman
> in RUP and at least in this sense can drive the other disciplines in
> the right way, not only more effective, more light ( including in the
> backlog sprint only the activities that adds value) but more agile
> too. If we really think we must draw a UML diagram, because it really
> adds value for this sprint or for documenting the system, we follow
> this in the scrum meetings, making the team collaborative with
> completing the artifact. I do not understand why we cannot say it is
> more agile.
> Raul Fernandez
Agility SPI: Software Process Improvement
abis@... - abis@...
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