825RE: R: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and RUP
- Jan 14, 2003Dear Raul,
I think we need to remember what Ken wrote in the first mail of this thread:
"Let us hypothesize that having a Scrum plug-in for RUP is an idea worth
pursuing. Then I have the following questions:
1. How good was the effort at the XP plug-in. Does it help or hurt? Did the
greater distribution cause the essence of XP to be more widely distributed,
or did the translation of XP into RUP cause XP to lose it's "soul?"
2. Given the meta model of a process within Rose, that is used to generate
RUP, how can an agile process be effectively described? The models of
processes that we used in our process management software always revolved
around hierarchies or tasks, with the lowest level tasks having estimates,
roles, inputs, outputs, techniques and task descriptions. And, of course,
each of the roles, techniques, inputs, and outputs were further described.
Is this type of metaphor appropriate for agile processes, or does this level
of delineation lead to them being fodder for M/S project,for "hands-off"
management, and for robotic tracking of plans while ignoring realities?
3. If the first two questions are adequately addressed, what is our best way
to proceed with the effort?"
It seems to me you are identifing RUP and UML. RUP is the commercial
implementation of the Unified Process by Rational (it's a product) while UML,
you know, is 'just' a language used to represent (mainly) software systems.
Drawing an UML diagram doesn't mean using RUP (neither UP). Of course
implementing RUP imply the use of UML.
If you find a UML diagram useful to add some sort of value to your effort then
use it! :-)
But RUP is an iterative process articulated in a well defined SEQUENCE of
This is the point IMHO: RUP is a flow while agile approaches accept the
non-linearity and unpredictability of the events. They are based on different
principles and practices are instantiation of these principles.
Ken question was about the usefulness (or not) of a Scrum plug-in for RUP (the
'RUP product' is a web-site full of guidelines, templates, etc, etc you can
IMHO you can of course write a Scrum Plug-in for RUP and it will help those
using it (as Adriano wrote: 'Scrum does not need RUP. RUP needs Scrum
practices to be effective') but I think 'the translation of Scrum into RUP
will cause Scrum to lose it's "soul?"'
Best regards :-)
> I think Scrum practices can replace the Project Management discipline inMarco Abis - CEO & Chairman
> RUP and at least in this sense can drive the other disciplines in the
> right way, not only more effective, more light ( including in the
> backlog sprint only the activities that adds value) but more agile too.
> If we really think we must draw a UML diagram, because it really adds
> value for this sprint or for documenting the system, we follow this in
> the scrum meetings, making the team collaborative with completing the
> artifact. I do not understand why we cannot say it is more agile.
> Raul Fernandez
Agility SPI: Software Process Improvement
abis@... - abis@...
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